PDA

View Full Version : My 3 Arowana's Died



sirpreet
12-11-2011, 01:01 PM
Dear All,

It has been a very sad day for me and my family.

We got ourselves 3 silver arowana's, new fish tank (fitted with pump and air pipe), heater...

This is our first fish tank. As per the petshop, just fill the water, put the fish and all is great.

8 hours later, all our fish were dead.

Now I have been reading and reading on the web, that PH value is to be 7 and temperature to be between 26-30 (this was maintained).

Also read about Ammonia, nitrate & Nitrite. What has to be be done if anyone can advise, I will be very helpful before I get another arowana.

Where does one get ammonia, nitrate & nitrite testers ?

Appreciate everyone's help.

Fisharefriends27
12-11-2011, 01:19 PM
Most fish are adaptable to ph.
Fish need cycled tanks. If you click aquarium forum at the top of the screen, (I think this is in the beginners section look for a sub forum about cycling. Lady Hobbs has a thread in red (called a sticky) about fishless cycling. For ammonia when you're cycling I recommend ace hardware(you'll understand what I mean once you read the sticky)
Hope that wasn't confusing.

Anyway
Arrowwanas get very big, and your tank was likely too small. What size was it?
Silver arrowannas get 4 ft.

A good test kit is API liquid test kit. Very accurate.



Edit
Here is the link to lady Hobbs sticky
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5640

Aeonflame
12-11-2011, 01:29 PM
Firstly, read the thread on cycling as mentioned above. Second, you should know that a single juvenile silver arowana should be kept in nothing smaller than a 180 gallon tank. An adult needs a 300 gallon tank that is at least 3' wide.


edit: 8 hours is a very short time to have died of ammonia poisoning in a new tank. Did you treat your water with dechlorinator before adding the fish?

Lady Hobbs
12-11-2011, 01:56 PM
Declorinator? I see no mention of adding dechlorinator to the water. Did you?

Your fish did not die due to toxic water conditions in 8 hours. Toxic water would have killed them in a few days, tho.

You need to read on how to set up and keep a fish tank, cycle it, etc. It's not the fish stores job to teach one how to keep a fish tank but to sell them fish.
And why they sold you 3 arowana's. Monster fish need monster fish tanks.

sirpreet
12-12-2011, 12:51 PM
Dear Lady Hobbs, Aeonflame, fishrfriends,

Many thanks for your advice. Highly appreciate your input.

Tank size is 40cm x 60cm x 100 cm

43 gallon / 196 ltr capacity tank.

Yes you are right, the fish seller has no responsibility to teach me anything. I have learnt it the hard way. Feel very upset and sad about the lives of the 3 arowana's.

Anyhow, When i posted this thread, I got a friend of mine who analyzez swimming pools to check the PH, Chlorine of the fish tank.

At 0900 hrs - ph was more than 8.5 (his measuring device gradient stopped at 8.5) chlorine was nil.

Dechlorination - wow i didnt hear this one. I will read the article about cycling and learn from there.

in the evening i bought JBL testing kit. ph - 7, nh3 & nh4 were at the lowest limit. also checked the ammonia, this was at the lowest <0.05.
All the while, pump was running along with the heater. thus could this be the reason that the ph changed since morning till evening.

I filled the tank (tap water) on the 09th 2300 hrs (let the pump run), at 1400 hrs 10th I have put the fish in the tank. first fish died at 2300 hrs. Other two died thereafter before 5 am next day.

Till now, the pump is running. no plants, only a few rocks at the bottom.

How does one treat water for dechlorination ? And when should i put fish inside the tank now...?

appreciate your feedback.

Aeonflame
12-12-2011, 01:11 PM
It is good that you are taking the time to research instead of just going out and buying more fish. Research should be the first thing done before undertaking the care of any animal.

Firstly, you need a filter. An air pump does absolutely nothing to maintain the water quality of your tank. Once you have a suitable filter, read the information on cycling here: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5640

If you are using tap water, you will also need to buy a dechlorinator like API tap water conditioner or Prime. There are other brands available. Just follow the directions on the back. use this whenever adding water to your tank or doing water changes.

When you have completed the cycling of the tank, only then should you go out and buy more fish. This time, you should get fish suitable for the size of your tank. This means no arowana.

Stlouisfish
12-12-2011, 01:14 PM
To dechlorinate, you need to buy water conditioner (I do not know what brands are available in your neck of the world) and add it to your water before putting fish in it as well as anytime you add new water to the tank. It comes in a liquid.

If you are able to purchase pure ammonia (ammonia that doesn't foam up when you shake the bottle) and read about fishless cycling, you need to be at the end of the nitrogen cycle before you add fish - it is not as easy as buy a tank, buy fish, put fish in tank. You need to make sure that the fish you choose are appropriate for the size of tank you buy...once they have grown. Running the tank without putting it through "cycling" won't prepare it for fish.

sirpreet
12-12-2011, 01:32 PM
Dear Aeonflame / andreahp,

Thanks for your suggestions. Shall look up the dechlorination liquid today itself.

When you say that no arowana, is this cause my tank is small ? another thing i want to ask is, does one need a longer (width) tank or a higher tank is suitable ?

The smallest Arowana which we get here is about 3 inch in length. is my tank of 100 cm suitable for it ?

Only tanks available here are 100cm, 120cm and than 150cm wide. other ones are 100 cm wide and 150 cm in height.

Await your advice.

sheamurai
12-12-2011, 01:40 PM
When looking at fish for your tank, you must look at the adult size of the fish. The fish you bought were babies, and so they looked ok for your tank today. However, they will grow far larger than your tank can handle. That's why folks are saying you cannot keep arowana in your tank.

Aeonflame
12-12-2011, 01:40 PM
When you buy fish, you need to look at their maximum size, and not the size they are when you buy them. Silver arowana grow to three feet long, and need a tank that is wider than they are long, and over twice their length. This means you would need a 300 gallon tank.

Lady Hobbs
12-12-2011, 01:53 PM
Not sure what goes into the water supply in Dubai but in most parts of the world, chlorine is added to the water supply to kill bacteria that we do not want in our drinking water. However, it must be removed before keeping fish. You also can not grow bacteria in your filters to maintain a "cycled" tank without it.

If you are unable to buy pure ammonia in Dubai, there are other ways to cycle a tank such as adding some raw prawns or fish to a nylon stocking, anchoring it to the bottom of the tank and allowed it to rot. It will stink but it will cycle because the rotting will cause ammonia levels. Rotting fish food will also cycle the tank but pure ammonia is far faster. A test kit to check for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates is most useful in keeping fish. If unable to cycle the tank at all, you can start with a "few" very hardly fish and do a lot of large water changes to keep the water from becoming toxic under you can reach a cycle.

Yes, your tank is too small for even one arowana. Do your research and soon you will know more than the person who sold you those fish and know exactly what fish to get for that tank.

sirpreet
12-12-2011, 02:27 PM
Dear sheamurai / aeonflame / Lady Hobbs,

Many thanks for your invaluable advice. Got the point. Seems I need a very very big tank to keep arowana... so its time to start looking for a much bigger tank.

Shall cycle as advised in the article by Lady Hobbs. Also will look for pure ammonia along with de-chlorination liquid.

thanks.

sheamurai
12-12-2011, 02:36 PM
Excellent sirpreet!
It may seem like more trouble at the moment, but you'll be rewarded by avoiding difficulties down the road. Plus you'll have much healthier fish!

Northernguy
12-12-2011, 02:40 PM
:22: You have a great attitude towards fishkeeping.
I hope you locate a large enough tank so you can keep these rather majestic fish.They also need a large amount of filtration.
What other fish were you planning on keeping with the Arowana's?
Welcome to the fabulous AC!

sirpreet
12-13-2011, 11:33 AM
Dear Lady Hobbs / Sheamurai / Northernguy,

Many thanks for yours posts. It is very encouraging to see your comments and suggestions. Really, i didnt think anyone would reply and guide me as you all have done. Cause at most of the forums, replies are very seldom.

Dear Northernguy: I was looking at various canister filters on the web. but shipping them to dubai is making the price more than double. I looked at the Aquatic suppliers here in Dubai. they have JBL equipement. Thus JBL CristalProfi is the model of the canister filter. Can you advise if this is fine...?

wrt other fish with Arowana, I had thought of keeping nothing. As i read and heard that with arowana, one cannot keep any other fish as arowana eats them.

I really want to keep arowana, as its been a dream since last 8 years, thus i have started looking for bigger tanks. Lets hope for the best.

The test kits which I had bought were also from JBL. Pretty good testing strips and the ammonia kit was different (with test liquids).

Await your input for JBL.

Aeonflame
12-13-2011, 12:23 PM
The JBL brand is fine. A piece of advice... use what you have available. I also live in a place where selection in equipment is limited.

However, if you want to keep arowana, you already understand that you will need a large tank. The easiest and cheapest way to filter a tank that size is with a sump and wet/dry filter.

sirpreet
12-13-2011, 01:04 PM
Dear All,

Further to the below, can you please advise if i can add the new canister filter now or wait for the cycling to finish...!

Crispy
12-13-2011, 01:17 PM
If you are serious about keeping a small arowana, you should start with just one. they are very fragile fish when small and should be alone until they reach around 12". pick one that is eating well in the store and keep feeding it what it will eat and slowly introduce new foods for a balanced diet. aro sticks, small crickets, freeze dried shrimp/krill are all great foods.

small arowana won't tolerate a strong current or a non-cycled tank. I would use an established sponge filter and a small canister should suffice for the first year of it's life in a minimum 55g tank. silver arowana can easily grow to 12"+ within their first year. my silver is less than 5 years old and 34".

Lady Hobbs
12-13-2011, 01:46 PM
Dear All,

Further to the below, can you please advise if i can add the new canister filter now or wait for the cycling to finish...!

Adding the filter now would give you a chance to build up a good supply of bacteria in it altho one can be added later and run alongside whatever filter you have now.

There must be some aquarium builders around Dubai somewhere. Perhaps you may have to put some feelers out and ask around. You might ask around the stores there and see if they could even order you one from their aquarium source.

I'm quite impressed with your posts. You seem very nice, willing to learn and taking replies to heart. It's nice having you here.

sirpreet
12-13-2011, 02:06 PM
Thanks Aeonflame.

Agree with you. Shall go for JBL.

Can you give me a model no or brand name for this sump / wet dry filter ? highly appreciate.

As I dont know if this JBL canister filter qualifies for the above.

Aeonflame
12-13-2011, 03:03 PM
Well you could always buy the sump and wet/dry filter but why do that when you can make your own for much less?

You can find an example of one in the thread below. You can also search online for DIY wet/dry filter and sump for more ideas.

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=77182

sirpreet
12-13-2011, 05:02 PM
Dear Crispy,

I am very serious on keeping a arowana... cant think of any other fish at the moment. something or the other kept happening in my life and cudnt keep a aquarium. now i have the place, thus can do. shall start with one small arowana.

Dear Lady Hobbs,

Thanks for your suggestion, shall put a filter asap. would also like to thank you for your comment. I am very humbled by your words of appreciation. Believe me, after having a dream for a few years and now being able to do it, by getting help from all of you around the world, I cannot thank you all enough. I feel so humbled and blessed for your advises. I feel really sad for the three arowana's who died and i cannot forgive myself for it. its really nice being here and being a part of this community. thanks very much.
After ur suggestion, i have looked around & spoken to ppl about building a aquarium, but all are quoting thru the roof.. I think i will have to find someone thru my Harley riders..! or make one myself like Aeonflame.

Latest on my aquarium - cudnt get pure ammonia or de-chlorination. heard from someone about conditioner thus need to look for it. Water is still being pumped with the built water pump + a

Thanks aeonflame for ur sump - wet/dry advice.

Flying out of Dubai to Bahrain for a day.. shall try to keep in touch and learn more.

Lady Hobbs, i have read ur artilcle about cycling. we had the arowana in the tank for about 18 hours. thereafter i started following your advice. had given the tank readings as well. so what tank readings should i expect to know that tank is ready ? appreciate ur input pls.

vinodjbhatia
12-13-2011, 06:51 PM
Hi Sirpreet

Welcome to the forum. Since you are in Dubai, some practical tips for aquarists here -

Most lfs here do not know much about fish or fish keeping, as you would have started to realise and the best way out is to reearch on your own. However there are some stores that are better than the rest.

Filters dont have to be branded but if you need JBL one place to get it is at Petzone or PetsPlus.

You can use Sera bio nitrivec, culture bacteria, to jump start the cycling process and add fish immediately. This is different from what most members of the forum do, but i find it very practical for Dubai. A bottle of the product is more than enough for your tank and its far cheaper than the ammonia method because water test products are far more expensive in Dubai than may other places worldwide. Available commonly.

I havent seen the API test kit in Dubai, but I do know its available in Abu Dhabi. You will get JBL and Sera more easily here.

Water conditioners - Tap water water in Dubai does contain chlorine and I believe chloramine too. You will need to use a conditioner. Prime is a good conditioner and available at Petzone. But there are other conditioners too with Tetra Aquasafe very popular amongst the sellers.

Tap water in Dubai has a pH lower than 7, in the range of 6.4-6.6 and is soft with kH in the range of 4 or so. Choose your fish accordingly.

Constructing a tank - while I havent done this myself, I do know that Aquarium Live Centre (attached to Lulu Hypermarket, Al Barsha) and Aquarium Concepts (attached to Dubai Garden Centre) make them. Aquarium concepts specialises in Acrylic ones which may be more suitable for larger tanks. Also there is another member on the forum - crazedmichael - who I beleive got his tank made. You may send him a message and check out where he got his.

Hope this helps and happy fish keeping.

sirpreet
12-15-2011, 05:41 PM
Dear Vinod,

Gr8 to know a aquarist from UAE. It would be fab to get in touch if you don't mind. my no is *******. await your call.

Many thanks for your advise, highly appreciate it.

I had tested the PH at my place and it was higher than 8.5.

My aim and passion is to keep arowana... any other fish i can keep with arowana ?

await suggestions.

Edit by Aeonflame: Please send private number via private message

Aeonflame
12-15-2011, 06:13 PM
As long as you have a large enough tank, any fish that is too large to be swallowed by the arowana and doesn't utilize the same tank level should be fine.

sirpreet
12-16-2011, 06:06 PM
Hi Everyone,

Need to know if my tank is ready !!! please assist...

I had put conditioner + bio (bacteria) liquids yesterday. Taken readings before all were normal.

Taken readings today, all are normal.

NH4 - <0.05
NO3 - 0
NO2 - 0
PH - 6.8 -7

Should i be ready for the fish ?

rgds

sirpreet
12-16-2011, 06:07 PM
BTW,

Yesterday, JBL Canister filter has started working and WOW WOW... the tank is crystal clear... absolutely fantastic....

As per your advise, also put a additional air pump with a stone, so its very well oxiginated.

The tank is looking so so wonderful, clean, bubbles from stone are looking nice... feels nice as well...

Aeonflame
12-16-2011, 06:13 PM
You are not ready to add fish till the tank has been cycled.


Did you get the ammonia? If not you can use fish food to start your cycle. Simply follow the directions on Lady Hobbs's article

Crispy
12-16-2011, 06:16 PM
good to see you got a new filter. sounds like you are still starting from scratch and have a brand new setup. are you familiar with properly cycling a tank? I would replace the airstone with an internal sponge filter. they are cheap and usually readily available. the added bio, mech, and oxygen to the tank is better than a simple airstone. try a single arowana and get him eating well before adding any fish. it will be worth it.....:fish:

sirpreet
12-16-2011, 06:38 PM
Hi Crispy / Aeonflame,

Thanks for your advice, but tell me one thing please. What are the readings that i should expect to know that the tank is ready.

I have met many fellows in the last two days, i mean yesterday & Today.... they are aquarists from Dubai and since I have used the Bio bacteria, conditioner, and readings are good.... they say that the tank is ready.

I totally believe you guys more than anyone, but it would be better to know what to expect on the readings scale to see if things are going the right way.

As per the cycling article, ammonia is 0, nitrites is 0 & nitrates are high. for which we need to do the water change and tank is ready.

I have mentioned the readings of my tank. thus doesnt it kinda half qualify..?

Aeonflame
12-16-2011, 06:44 PM
To put it simply, You need to start with a reading of about 4 ppm ammonia. This will eventually dissipate and your nitrite readings will go up. Your cycle is complete when you have nitrates and no detectable ammonia or nitrites.

Crispy
12-16-2011, 06:51 PM
I will be happy to help you with your arowana but you need to get the basics of a balanced tank down first. establishing a tank is imperative to successfully raising a young aro.

what do you mean by 'nitrates are high"?. that is not a good sign. your tank doesn't sound cycled, which is not good to try another arowana. can you get any biomedia from your fish shop? or a friend with an established tank? if not, read up on cycling your tank properly before you lose another aro. you could also try establishing the tank with some danios or other small cheap fish well before adding your aro.

vinodjbhatia
12-16-2011, 09:19 PM
@Sirpreet - please check your inbox for private messages.

sheamurai
12-17-2011, 01:03 AM
I'm afraid a tank doesn't cycle that fast, sirpreet. The only way to get a fast cycle is to transfer an established filter to your new tank.

The next best way would be to get some used filter material from your friends tank (remember to keep it wet) and put that in your filter. The yukkier the better. That will be loaded with the beneficial bacteria you need.

At that point, any ammonia/shrimp/fish food you add to the tank to feed the bacteria should process ammonia very quickly, as opposed to a fresh new start at cycling which can take weeks.

sirpreet
12-19-2011, 04:55 PM
Hi All,

I have taken the readings again... but there is no change in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate... all are nearly 0 or should i say, ammonia <0.05, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10 mg/l, GH > 4d, KH 3d, PH 6.8, temp 27-28 C.

The fittings in the tank are all slimy... dont know if that means anything.

Please advise. is the tank ready ?

sheamurai
12-19-2011, 05:18 PM
How much ammonia are you adding per dose?

You have to add ammonia routinely, and see how long it takes for the ammonia and nitrites to be processed. One dose of ammonia is not enough to cycle your tank. Once the your dose of ammonia is processed, you have to keep feeding the tank ammonia until you add fish.

Brhino
12-19-2011, 05:22 PM
If he's added any ammonia at any point, he hasn't said so. Seems to me he's sitting with a "clean" tank - no ammo/trite/trate, no fish, no beneficial bacteria - asking if he can add fish. Going to be the same problem as the first time.

sheamurai
12-19-2011, 05:42 PM
You are right...he said he couldn't get it but added some bacteria.

sirpreet, your tank is NOT cycled and ready for fish. If you add fish at this point, with only the bacteria additive, you will be cycling with fish. You will have to monitor your water daily and do water changes so you fish do not die like they did last time.

You can cycle your tank with fish food or a piece of raw shrimp if you can not get ammonia.

sirpreet
12-20-2011, 03:28 PM
thanks for your feedback. Yes there is no ammonia available here. thus not added any.

so do i add the shrimp and wait. Also i will monitor the readings everyday. do i need to add bacteria when i add the shrimp ?

Incase I have some fish in the tank while i add this shrimp and bacteria, would it be ok ?

sheamurai
12-20-2011, 03:30 PM
No, if you are going to cycle with fish, do not add the shrimp.

Aeonflame
12-20-2011, 03:35 PM
Okay, here's how I would do things. Borrow some media from someone with an established tank and put it in your filter - optional . Add a piece of shrimp to the tank and wait. test your water every day. It should take no longer than a couple of weeks.

Only then should you add fish. Do a water change before you do.

sheamurai
12-20-2011, 03:40 PM
The line "in case there are fish" leads me to suspect he's already added the fish, Aeon.

sirpreet
12-20-2011, 04:07 PM
Thanks very much. I have actually added the fish and since last 3 days she is eating well... seems well also, pretty active...

I am sorry, but i could'nt resist getting a fish... Met a few aquarist here and they advised its ok... as per the water conditions in Dubai... so I thought ok, let take a fish.

But as you say, I want to be cautious and not loose the fish. thus do i need to do as per lady hobbs fishing cycling ? i am taking readings everyday...

sirpreet
12-20-2011, 04:10 PM
Well, u are right... i did add the fish... i apologize... but i couldnt resist as i spoke to and met a few serious aquarists here and thus have taken a chance..

Lady Hobbs
12-20-2011, 04:19 PM
Years ago that's the only way people cycled tanks. As long as you are cautious and keep up with water changes then you should do fine. You are only growing enough bacteria for that fish tho so when it's time to add more, stock again with only one or two.

sheamurai
12-20-2011, 04:23 PM
If you really wanted to be cautious, you wouldn't have added fish.

You are cycling with fish. Monitor your readings and if you detect any ammonia or nitrites, do a large water change.

sirpreet
12-20-2011, 04:32 PM
Thanks Lady Hobbs for your encouraging words...

Sorry SHEAMURAI, i agree with you... but then this is what life is about, making decisions... atleast i am being honest about it...

Also, I respect you all so so much but when one gets pounded with local knowledge and is desperate to keep the fish...what can i say...

Can u believe, not many people out here do water tests as we have been discussing... test kits are damn expensive here... so its a different story our here...

Anyway, moving forward, lets have this fish alive, healthy and rocking.... would appreciate your help.

Crispy
12-21-2011, 11:46 AM
if you were talking to other local aquarists, why didn't you ask for some established filter media? then you would be ready for fish instantly.

you came to the forum for advice, yet are mostly listening to your locals. seems like you are getting conflicting info, and what everyone here has said is 100% true. we are here because we love fish and enjoy helping others learn. small arowana are very fragile fish and I'd hate to see you lose another.

fishguy66
12-23-2011, 01:16 PM
Yes you are right, the fish seller has no responsibility to teach me anything.

Maybe not to "teach" you anything, but he/she should have asked questions about such topics as "are you new to hobby, what do you want to keep",etc, etc. Obviously this is an individual who does not want repeat business. When I managed an aquarium store, I wanted to be as helpful as possible so my customers would be as successful as possible, so they would enjoy the hobby. My suggestion would be to listen to what the people on this site offer you in advice, as most of them truly know what they are talking about, & perhaps get a book on fishkeeping & what that entails.:22:

Aeonflame
12-23-2011, 02:00 PM
Unfortunately, you are in the minority Fishguy. Most lfs owners don't care what you know and many know very little themselves. Even the people they hire often have no knowledge of fishkeeping.

Therefore, the responsibility ultimately lies on the customer.

sirpreet
12-26-2011, 01:03 PM
thanks for your support everyone...

highly appreciate your suggestions...

As mentioned earlier... there is no change in the readings... thus please advise anything needs to be done.

sirpreet
12-27-2011, 06:13 AM
Dear All,

Good day,

Further to the message i sent yesterday, I managed to get API test kit.

Ammonia - 0.05 mg/l
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

Fish seems healthy. Eating properly.

Any advise please.

sirpreet
12-28-2011, 01:14 PM
Seems no one is interested in any suggestions !

Thanks

Brhino
12-28-2011, 01:34 PM
many people offered suggestions previously, and you chose to disregard them. That's your right - it's your tank and your fish - but it will make people less inclined to offer further suggestions.

Continue monitoring water parameters. Do water changes if Ammonia or Nitrite get above 0.25mg/l. Are you sure you measured 0.05mg/l? I didn't know anyone made a test kit that could read such a small amount.

Aeonflame
12-28-2011, 02:08 PM
Keep doing water changes. Eventually your tank will cycle. If you can add some used filter media from an established healthy tank, then it will speed things up.

vinodjbhatia
01-07-2012, 06:42 PM
Hows, than tank coming up sirpreet?

sirpreet
01-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Hi Vinod,

Thanks Aeonflame & Brhino & Vinod...

Fish tank is good... my arowana has been healthy, grown a bit... been doing water changes and all has been fine.

Till the 13th All was good but on the 13th A friend of mine has gifted me another 2 small arowana's and now I have a total of three. All seem to be fine, but somehow, since the time I have put the water from the packets and the new arowana in the tank, the water turns into light green within 48 hrs.

The water also turns into a milky hazy and greenish colour....

Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate < 5

Brhino, you were right, my gradiation earlier was incorrect, it was not 0.05 but 0.5.

If anyone can advise why my tank is turning into green colour, i would be very grateful.

Canister filter is JBL 900.

thanks.

Stlouisfish
01-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Sounds like a bacterial bloom because your tank is cycling. I would also do water changes to get your ammonia down to 0.25ppm - those 3 fish are producing ammonia and it needs to be removed until you grow enough bacteria in your filter to "eat it".

sirpreet
01-19-2012, 07:56 PM
thanks Andreahp,

God your advice. Noted its a bacterial bloom... sounds good.

Can you advice why the colour of water is turning green ? is this something to wrorry about ?

Aeonflame
01-19-2012, 07:59 PM
Green water is caused by two things. An excess of nutrients and an excess of light.

MuckyFish
01-19-2012, 11:22 PM
You have trebled the bioload in your tank so the bacteria will take at least 2 to 3 days to get back to where the bacteria was before you added the additional two fish in relation to the fish in the tank. Nitrifying bacteria take at least 16 hours to reproduce.

Sounds like you added water from the fish bags for the two new fish. Most people recommend that the water should be discarded and the fish should be netted in after being acclimatized, the packing water should be discarded because it may carry disease, or parasites or algae and other hitchhikers.

There are lots of articles on acclimatization basically you add water from the tank slowly and gradually to the bag water ideally placed in a bucket and drip feed the water in or periodically add small amounts of tap water to it to allow the water to mix.

Glad things are going better for you this time.

sirpreet
01-20-2012, 06:39 AM
Hi Mucky,

Thanks for your message. duly noted. Goodness me I never knew that the water of the bag should not be added. as lots of people say it should be added...

I agree with you that there can be a lot of hitchhikers which may enter the tank thus it should not be added.

Wrt Aeonflames message, he says that it is due to high nutrition and light. well i have not added any nutrition to the tank. only given food to the fish.

2ndly, lights are normal - two tubes which come with the tank. so dont understand how the light has exceeded or thhe nutrition ! suggestions please.

At present stage, do i need to worry ? as I have done a 70 % water change two days back and today is the 3rd day, water is very green, milky...

shall take the readings now and post for suggestions.

:-)

Stlouisfish
01-20-2012, 01:33 PM
Hi Mucky,

Thanks for your message. duly noted. Goodness me I never knew that the water of the bag should not be added. as lots of people say it should be added...

Wrt Aeonflames message, he says that it is due to high nutrition and light. well i have not added any nutrition to the tank. only given food to the fish.
2ndly, lights are normal - two tubes which come with the tank. so dont understand how the light has exceeded or thhe nutrition ! suggestions please.


At present stage, do i need to worry ? as I have done a 70 % water change two days back and today is the 3rd day, water is very green, milky...
[

shall take the readings now and post for suggestions.

:-)
When adding a fish, once you have equalized the water temp (by floating the bag) and added small amounts of tank water to the water in the bag (to acclimate for pH), you net the fish in the bag and add it to your tank.
I am assuming that excess nutrition is from overfeeding which leads to excessive fish waste & rotting excess food.

Excess light is when you keep the lights on longer than needed - fish don't require light unless you want the fish to get used to a day/night cycle. Sometimes people have plants which require a certain amount of daily light but I've heard of people never shutting off their lights or keeping their tank close to a window which provides a lot of light.

If your ammonia is still at .5, I wouldn't wait every other day to change the water - it needs to come down to 0.25 which means a daily change IMO.

Lady Hobbs
01-20-2012, 03:32 PM
You will find that everyone has their own method of acclimating. Some sites state to never leave the fish in a bag at all due to rapid build up of ammonia and stress. Some recommend only the drip method. Others put their fish and their water into a pail, add a cup of tank water every 15 minutes or so for an hour then net the fish out and put in the tank. You will find what works for you and your fish. Your are simply trying to match the pH and the temp of the tank they just left to your tank. If you buy them locally, chances are the pH is already the same as yours and in that case, only the temp would need to be addressed.

To me, reducing all stress works the best so mine always go in the tank with all lights off for the rest of the day. But no matter how you acclimate, adding fish to a tank containing ammonia is a losing situation and no amount of acclimating will help.

sirpreet
01-20-2012, 07:27 PM
Thanks Lady hobbs & Andreahp...

I am feeding about 7 sticks to each fish in the morning (8mm long) and about 3 sticks each in the evening.

I was feeding the same amount to the single arowana and the tank didnt turn green at all.

With your advice, I have reduced the food to the fish now. Nearly half now.

Done the water change in the evening, about 70 %. it was so so green that even after doing the water change, its still light green.

Haziness is still present. reduced after the water change, but still present in the tank.

Readings before the water change as follows;

Ammonia - 0.5
Nitrite - 0
Nitrates - between 0 & 5

Lights are not on 24 hrs a day. I keep them on from around 8 am till 10 pm. like a day / night cycle. Also, there is no extra light on the tank from window or doors. the tank is kept in the corner of the room, protected by walls, thus the light of the tank is the only one illuminating it. also the light of the room, but its not that bright, very sutle.

So it feels that the light is ok.

how do i get the greeny thing reduced ? its pretty depressing. Thank was so green and hazy when i changed the water that i couldnt see the bottom at all...

Demjor19
01-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Just keep up with your waterchanges and feeding schedule. After routine large waterchanges...This will run its course.

Crispy
01-20-2012, 09:21 PM
having the lights on from 8am - 10pm is a very long time. too much light IMO. drop the time the lights are on to 6-8 hours instead of 14 and I bet you'll see a big difference.

MuckyFish
01-21-2012, 03:37 AM
What other light does the tank get? Ambient light, window light?

I can leave my single tube in my 55 on for 14 hours and not much happens but over feeding, not cleaning the sides and ultimately the winter sun directly hitting the tank for 15minutes a day is my big cause of algae.
Nitrate the final product of the nitrogen cycle in a typical aquarium is taken up by plants and algae and algae are better at absorbing nutrients on account of their single celled structure.

From what I have read but not tried that can be found elsewhere on this forum, once you have algae it is very good at absorbing other nutrients even when you reduce food / nutrients going into the tank. Its good to balance the food intake but you will still have to remove the algae via some other method.

Also I understand that daphnia (more information available on this forum) also known as japanese water flea will eat the green suspended algae there are at least two varieties available commercially in the US. I would not however add daphnia at this point or perhaps even at all to your tank and are probably more sensitive to ammonia levels than fish (they are technically a crustacean/arthropod I think) and will add to the ammonia levels (albeit minutely). I think the daphnia is able to reproduce asexually so you could end up overrun with the little blighters if the arowana doesn't think they are tasty.

Have a look at the algae stickies for more information in the algae section.

Lady Hobbs
01-21-2012, 04:52 AM
Algae and green water reduces the oxygen levels in the tank. I think you should do a couple large water changes this week before that green water gets out of hand and not leave your lights on so long each day. Lights need not be on so many hours each day.

I agree with the others here that since you know others that have fish tanks, how about seeing if you can get some of their filter media to put in your tank so you can get threw that cycle faster? Don't let that ammonia get up over .50, either. I never let mine go over .25 when trying to cycle because even .50 made me nervous.

sirpreet
01-22-2012, 08:14 AM
Hi,

The light which the tank gets is the ambient light only. windows are tinted, thus its always the ambient light. No direct sunlight from the windows. Also the ambient light from the bulb in the room which is very far away (warm light bulb, 40 watts).

Now I have switched off the lights of the tank. kept them on only for 4 hours yesterday.

Reduced the feed for the fish to 4 sticks only (per fish / per day) - from yesterday.

Aeonflame
01-22-2012, 12:01 PM
Sounds good to me. Keep us updated on your cycle please

sirpreet
01-22-2012, 12:56 PM
thanks. Shall advise you of the readings in about 2 hours when i get home.

Lady Hobbs
01-22-2012, 01:24 PM
I would check on those nitrates, especially. Others here have had the green water issues but it seems to have cleared up for them with larger and more frequent water changes. It may also be getting reintroduced into your tank by what is trapped in the filters. Since you are trying to cycle, that will pose a problem since you have your bacteria trying to grow now.

Keep in mind, green water reduces the oxygen for the fish! Make sure you have a lot of oxygen going into the tank and water movement. If you have to do larger water changes, then do them. The fish will appreciate it and it will bring that ammonia down. Add NO more fish until that tank is cycled. Tank lights on 8 -10 hours a day is enough.

sirpreet
01-22-2012, 01:41 PM
Thanks Lady Hobbs. reverting with nitrates readings.

Shall keep doing the water changes and ensure water movement. To keep the water movement, I was thinking of two methods - pls advise which one.

1. lower the water level a bit ( about 2 inch) so that the water splashs down on the surface when it arrives from the filter pipes.

2. Change the input of the water filter pipe from the pin holes to the wave maker. the flat type.

Which one will help better ?

Shall not add any more fish ! noted.

I was also thinking if its wise to buy a small tank to make a QT tank. As i have been reading on the forums. Saw a tank about 37 cm x 25 cm x 20 cm. Just prepare a QT tank and just incase if its required. Maybe at a later stage when i might need to do a full tank clean up incase the algae doesnt go. Atleast I will have a QT tank to transfer the fish. - Just a thought. please advise your suggestion.

sirpreet
01-22-2012, 01:42 PM
is there a way to post a pic of my tank on this forum so that you can see how green it is ?

Lady Hobbs
01-22-2012, 01:49 PM
Check in the How To thread so as not to change the subject in this one.

I know nothing about a wave maker but dropping the water levels to give some more oxygen may help. Or raising up the hose to the canister filter. Do you only have one filter on this tank? Do Arowanas even like wavemakers? They are top swimmers so I don't know if they want all that movement. ?????

Where are those friends of yours who had fish tanks? You have got to get some seeded material and get that tank cycled because fish can not live indefinately in ammonia levels of .50. It's not only the levels but the pure length of time of having higher levels that will kill them. I'd go back to the store that sold you this fish and tell them they can now give you what is needed to get that tank cycled.

Crispy
01-22-2012, 02:10 PM
small aros will not like strong current in the tank.

Lady Hobbs
01-22-2012, 02:23 PM
Thank You Crispy! Just what I was thinking.

sirpreet
01-23-2012, 11:20 AM
Many thanks.

I have taken the readings yesterday and they are as follows;

Ammonia - 0.5
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - between 0 & 5

There after i have done a water change. Cleaned the sides of the tank. There was a lot of white floating residue in the tank when i cleaned it. Seems all the algae was on the walls.

Presently the water is looking clean and lights are off.

Water level is 2 inch less, so that the water splash's and there is more oxygen.

------------------------------------------

wrt QT, should i go ahead. would it be a better idea...?

I am trying to source some media and shall get it done soonest.

Aeonflame
01-23-2012, 01:35 PM
You need to keep that ammonia as low as possible. Keep doing water changes please.

sirpreet
01-24-2012, 08:27 AM
noted and shall do so.

thanks

MuckyFish
01-24-2012, 08:35 AM
A foot to water level, I let my tank reduce the water level by two inches (I took some out for maintenance and acclimatizing new fish and will add back when it is water change time.) I notice that it has improved my overall water clarity significantly.

Someone will beat me up for adding fish to cloudy water, but I didn't realize how cloudy till I came home this evening.

sirpreet
01-24-2012, 08:50 AM
wow... thanks for the feedback. I reduced the water level by 1 inch, shall reduce it further and let you know.

sirpreet
01-25-2012, 04:57 AM
Hi, would like to thank Vinod (member) for giving me some filter media... got it yesterday and put it in my canister filter.

Hopefully things should accelerate now.

sirpreet
01-25-2012, 05:12 AM
Hi Everyone,

I have a simple or maybe a stupid question... As i had advised earlier, I hve these arowana sticks as food for my arowana. they are about 6 to 8 mm long. I was reading the section of Arowana and other posts for feeding of arowana.

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/arowana/fish.php

It says that baby arowana should be fed three times a day... medium twice a day...

I had reduced the feed to 4 sticks a day only. And I see that the arowana are always hungry... jumping and always wanting something to eat. i go near the tank and they start following my fingers... as if something will be put in the tank..

Thus, the question of how much should i feed and how many times...

My tanks, green algae situation has improved since last three days as i have kept the lights shut most of the day and than switch them on only around evening time for about 5 hours.

Got some filter media as well thus bacteria should improve now.

Appreciate your suggestion on the feeding please.

sirpreet
01-25-2012, 01:23 PM
hi, can anyone advise me what are the bio balls for ? are these better than the ceramic rings ? or do they have a different purpose ?

Crispy
01-25-2012, 01:31 PM
foodsticks are good if the small aros can eat them. feed them until they are full a few times a day. you can also use small crickets, mealworms, small shrimps, bloodworms at this size.

bioballs have a large surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow. they are best used in a wet/dry trickle filter because they diffuse the water the best and it gives the bacteria more oxygen for the bacteria. ceramic rings are a superior media because they are great submerged and/or trickle-style in my opinion.

best of luck and post pics of your aro if you get the chance.

Demjor19
01-25-2012, 05:52 PM
foodsticks are good if the small aros can eat them. feed them until they are full a few times a day. you can also use small crickets, mealworms, small shrimps, bloodworms at this size.

bioballs have a large surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow. they are best used in a wet/dry trickle filter because they diffuse the water the best and it gives the bacteria more oxygen for the bacteria. ceramic rings are a superior media because they are great submerged and/or trickle-style in my opinion.

best of luck and post pics of your aro if you get the chance.

I agree with all of the above. We started our aro on food sticks (broken in half) and pinhead crickets. Also...All I use is ceramic in all of my filters. Works great!

sirpreet
01-26-2012, 05:57 AM
Thanks Crispy & Demjor19,

My Arowana's are eating the food sticks very well... they dont let any stick remain in the tank... just jump at them and eat them all... so thought that they are hungry most of the time... as i had reduced the food due to algae.

Well I landed up buying the bio balls... so will try them out for a while...

When you say trickle filter - this is the filter on top of the aquarium ? correct ? at the back...? where the water is taken from the vertical pipe and than thru a holed pipe spread over the box shaped compartment, than the water passes thru filter wool and gets into the tank from top (thru gravity) - is it correct ?

I have placed a pack of ceramic rings between two filterwools in this trickle filter...

Please advise if its ok to change the filter media between two filters ? like remove the bio balls and place in other filter OR remove the ceramic rings and put them in the other filter. Naturally without washing them. please do let me know.

Crispy
01-26-2012, 08:57 PM
sounds like you have an overhead trickle filter. just leave the media alone to do it's thing.

Lady Hobbs
01-26-2012, 11:53 PM
I'm not familar with a member Vinod but that was nice of him to send you some seeded material. If he mailed it I hope he added a couple drops of ammonia to it or the bacteria might have died off before you received it.

Hopefully this will put a rush on those cycling blues. You meant vinodjbhatia, I bet?

sirpreet
01-28-2012, 03:33 PM
Yes I meant vinodjbhatia. I actually went to his place and took the filter wool with loads of bacteria on it... it was very nice of him.

It was a treat to see his Aquarium... so so crystal clear and nice landscaping, lovely fish...

After seeing his Aquarium... I have put some substrate in my tank as well... some gravel, two plants also... thus my tank is looking nice now. Just a thought, trust its ok for the plants to be in the aquarium ?

seeded media inserted on the 24th Jan (water change also done on 24th Jan)

Last water change done on 26th Jan

Todays readings:

Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate between 0 & 5

Hopefully all should be good now :-)

Lady Hobbs
01-28-2012, 03:44 PM
This is great! That will help your fish a lot. If you are going to be keeping large fish in the tank it may not be worth your time to try to grow them. Lots of driftwood and rocks look nice, too, and don't require you to buy more expensive lights.

sirpreet
01-28-2012, 06:58 PM
thanks Lady.

U meant by not growing the plants - correct ? just want to confirm.

Your point noted and understood. I was getting a bit confused, if more lights are required for the plants, wont that give rise to Algae again ?

please suggest.

Lady Hobbs
01-28-2012, 09:10 PM
Sirpreet......without proper lighting, plants will not do well. But planted tanks also depend on the fish you will be keeping. Do you know what you will be stocking in your tank?

Perhaps Demjor19 or Crispy will help out here (or someone) who has an Arowana. Please name the fish you will be getting please.

Crispy
01-29-2012, 12:20 AM
I think he already has an arowana who is eating foodsticks.

good to see your readings are ok and you have cycled media. now just keep them well fed and I recommend once a week 30% water changes. do you have any pics or video of the tank? how big is it again?

kudos to you for listening to the advice given here. :fish:

sirpreet
01-29-2012, 10:49 AM
Thanks everyone for your advise.

Yes I have 3 Arowana's in my tank. Gravel, one Driftwood, one rock, two plants.

Arowana's are feeding on the food sticks...

Question is if the two plants which I have in the tank, are ok ?

I dont have any pics or video at present, shall work on it and show you.

sirpreet
01-29-2012, 10:51 AM
the tank is 100 x 60 x 40 cm. Size of Arowana's is 4 inch, 5 inch & around 6 inch (maybe a little less than 6 inch)

Crispy
01-29-2012, 11:39 AM
I hope you have a very secure lid. arowanas WILL JUMP!!

as for the plastic plants, they are probably ok, but you want to give your aros as much swimming space as possible.

sirpreet
01-29-2012, 01:49 PM
Thanks Crispy,

The lid is very secure. Thus no chance of them jumping anywhere.

The plants are not plastic ? they are real plants. Is it ok. Shall try to take a few pics and show you.