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Bill M.
08-02-2007, 06:34 PM
Could we possibly have different sized tanks for TOTM??

I feel that I can't even compete with those who have much larger tanks...

Maybe we could do a 10, 20, 29, 55, etc category.....

MeganL3985
08-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't you think doing them in all those categories would be a bit much? I do agree with different sizing comps though....maybe just a big condensed...as in like 1-5, 10-20, 29-50, etc (those sizings are off but you get the point). Ya know, like not specifically just those sizes, but more of different ranges of size.

Ps. I do feel how you do though, my 2.5 and 5 gals that I currently have wont hold a chance in a bucket, against all the beautiful larger tanks.

tropfish
08-02-2007, 08:26 PM
I've seen some beautiful small tanks before, and they have won in the past, but i also see why you would want catagories.

RobbieG
08-02-2007, 08:40 PM
It looks like bigger tanks have an advantage - but really if a person doesn't put about a million hours worth of work into a big tank its going to look horrible. Spyder's tank blew me away last month but only because he put an extraordinary amount of effort into it. You could make a 29 gallon look just as good with just a fraction of the effort.

Even as good as Spyder's tank was - I voted for one of the smallest tanks in the contest last month (sorry man)

hungryhound
08-02-2007, 08:48 PM
I understand what you are saying, but as tropfish mentioned there have been some nice small tanks that have won.

The problem with having so many different brackets is that it waters down the competition and to me cheapens the win.

I know we live in a society where everyone is supposed to win so that nobody's self esteem is hurt, but in reality life is not fair. I think when you start handing out more and more medals it diminishes the accomplishment of winning.

The board has already headed down that slope by handing out a 2nd place medal in all categories as well.

I personally have never won any of the competitions, and while I would like to I do not want to have the rules bent because I currently don't have a tank or picture that will win.

By having the tough competition that we have, it drives you to improve your tank and make it better if you really want to win. And makes it an honor when you do win.

To me voting is not based upon who has the largest tank and who spent the most money on it. Will they have an advantage? yes of course life is not fair, but that doesn't matter to me as I base my vote upon who used what they had the best and gave the most pleasing and inspiring tank regardless of size.

Drumachine09
08-02-2007, 09:33 PM
Bigger isnt always better.

Incred Ed won with his 5 gallon two months ago.

TowBoater
08-02-2007, 09:42 PM
True, it is the effort put in that counts. back at the tanks though, maybe a nano category? .5-10, then all that are 11-99, and then large tanks, 100+.

tropfish
08-02-2007, 09:42 PM
very well said HH i totally agree

MeganL3985
08-02-2007, 10:36 PM
I get what some of you are saying about life not being fair and thats just the way it is, but thats life, thats not a contest that can be changed to make things better for others. Its not diluting the competition or making anything easier, its just making others feel like even though their tanks are smaller, they can be rewarded for their creativity too. I personally think no matter what you do, if you've got a good looking 10 gal up against a good looking 100 gal (for example), in the end most likely the one thats got more area is going to win. Not trying to complain about anything, just understanding what Bill M. is saying. But whatever ruling is made about this, its cool. Thats what the thoughts and suggestion threads about....its no biggy.

salman
08-02-2007, 10:53 PM
I agree and disagree, Maybe in the future we can do that, but when we have 10-20 tanks submitted, there would be like 2 or 3 tanks in each margin. Then it wouldn't really be a competition. I have seen some AMAZING small tanks, and some AMAZING big tanks. In order to win this contest you must have worked so hard on your tank. But, to the people who are thinking, Why bother when you cant win, well, if you don't submit your picture you may never know if your tank is good or bad. You make win 3rd or 4rth place, but that will encourage you to try to make a better tank.

RobbieG
08-02-2007, 11:13 PM
Also if you think your tank can't win you could use both of your entries for the POTM contest.

Seriously though - from what I have seen - the big old monster tanks hardly ever win.

crackatinny
08-02-2007, 11:18 PM
Last month my 120G did not get a vote, yet many smaller ones did, I think it go's more toward trend, and at the moment natural planted tanks just seem to be the favourites.

RobbieG
08-02-2007, 11:25 PM
Your tank got chopped off of the thread too!

Rough month :ezpi_wink1:

Lady Hobbs
08-02-2007, 11:28 PM
As of last Oct or Nov, our selections were of 5 or 6 tanks. The contests have only gotten this big in the last few months. If they should drop back off again, it would be pretty difficult to have 4 categories with only 6 or 7 entries. It would no longer be a contest.

The only reason a 2nd place was implemented is because for now the contest has grown but there's no guarantee it will remain with this many entries. If entries again drop back off, the second place will be withdrawn.

Like the others, I don't vote for the largest tank. I vote for how much work goes into it. I also never go into the contest with the thoughts I might win but enter just for the involvement.

Spyder
08-02-2007, 11:28 PM
Visit this site
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006.cgi?&op=showpage&name=view-showcase

You can do great things with all size tanks

Tilmo2180
08-02-2007, 11:29 PM
I see why brackets could be a good thing. Not too many brackets though or it would be a compitition between 2 people. Maybe just large and small perhaps 31g and up/30g and down. I did vote for Spyder but not due to size. It was mostly due to all the plants and natual look of it. Its apparent that many many many hours were spent on that tank. I would not object to brackets however I dont object to how it is now either.

Lady Hobbs
08-02-2007, 11:31 PM
Your tank got chopped off of the thread too!

Rough month :ezpi_wink1:

His tank wasn't chopped off. He may have cropped it right to the edge to make it the right size but the size he submitted is what was entered. I don't touch the pictures that were submitted unless they are too dark and I will ask before I lighten it.

Crack is right on trends. Right now planted tanks are it. In the fish contests the cichlids have been the favorites.

RobbieG
08-02-2007, 11:38 PM
I meant that it was on the photobucket page but not in the thread. His was the last on the poll list so when I didn't see the photo in the thread I assumed it had been accidently chopped off the end.

I could however have been sniffing too much aquarium rated sealant and missed it!

Lady Hobbs
08-02-2007, 11:46 PM
You are nuts. I just opened the thread and went back and his was the very last entry. He entered his pic just a couple hours before the contest close.

I opened the thread for you to look again however none of the pictures are now there as they have been moved in the photobucket site so the links are all broken.

RobbieG
08-02-2007, 11:50 PM
I believe you - if you say it was there it was there - I have no doubt that I just missed it.

Lady Hobbs
08-02-2007, 11:57 PM
LOL It's there. My biggest fear is forgetting someones entry and getting on the hot seat so check and check and check before the voting starts. God forbid I make a mistake. I'd be flogged. LOL

TracyUK
08-03-2007, 12:32 AM
I think I have one of the biggest tanks on here and I haven't won..............yet! lol

MeganL3985
08-03-2007, 12:44 AM
I agree and disagree, Maybe in the future we can do that, but when we have 10-20 tanks submitted, there would be like 2 or 3 tanks in each margin.

Your right about that part, maybe if there are more tanks submitted each month.

Lady Hobbs
08-03-2007, 12:45 AM
Look at the tank fishguy submitted as well as tehTANK every month. It's just the way it's been going because the planted take so much more work, I think.

SkarloeysMom
08-03-2007, 03:37 AM
Last months TOTM was so hard to vote on since there were so many nice tanks. My vote goes to the photo grabs my eye the most...the most visual stunning photo. I don't think about live vs fake plants or how much work goes into it just how good it looks overall. I loved the Zen Betta tank that was entered recently and that was a small tank. Having only small tanks, I understand why some might want to have size catagories for this comp. but I agree with Hobbs- you can always enter 2 POTM.

Bill M.
08-03-2007, 03:46 AM
Hey all..

After thinking about what was said by all parties.... I agree with those who said that if there were more categories it would take some of the prestige off of the achievement. I agree that a 2 gallon would have the same chance as a 40 gallon, it is just dependant on the viusal appeal and work done to it. I will submit my tank this round... and if I don't win, who cares, just more motivation to make it better.....

Speaking of making things better: I have been working on my new light set up for a week and my mom said, "Honey, I want you know that when you focus on something too much, it becomes an obsession." I said "Mom, obession was 3 stages ago." Heh.. I love this hobby..

Drumachine09
08-03-2007, 04:05 AM
"Honey, I want you know that when you focus on something too much, it becomes an obsession." I said "Mom, obession was 3 stages ago." Heh.. I love this hobby..



HAHAHAHAHA! Thats awesome!

Lady Hobbs
08-03-2007, 07:24 AM
Good for you Bill. When you dream about fish and the only thing you want to buy anymore is something for your fish tanks, you know you've had it.

Or be like cocoa pleco. Take a trip to Germany and run around the country looking at fish tanks and fish.

hungryhound
08-03-2007, 01:48 PM
Your right about that part, maybe if there are more tanks submitted each month.

if you want to get more tanks submitted each month. The best thing to do would be to change the rules of the number of pictures that one can submit. Instead of only being able to post two pictures total in both catagories, make it so that you can post 2 pictures in TOTM and two pictures in POTM.

That way you do not have to choose between putting two nice pictured in POTM and none in TOTM or vis versa. This way everyone would be able to enter both contests every month. Plus it would eliminate the anxiety of am I wasting a picture buy posting in TOTM.

The reason I say two for TOTM as well as POTM is that by having two pictures it would allow people to showcase thier tanks from different angles and allow us to get a better grasp of how well they are laid out.

Just a suggestion,.

crackatinny
08-03-2007, 02:17 PM
Hungry, I think the main issue here was.
Does size matter?
And I think you will agree it does not.

BUT

I do agree on the different angles of the tank, one of my 29G's, I have put a lot of work into the cabinate that surrounds it, maybe a photoshop job to join the 2 images?.

On saying that, give us a chance to have a talk about the possibilities of this, when it comes to the comps, Hobbs does all the work there, and there is a lot to it, on top of this. if she comes on and there is another problem that has not been taken care of, she takes that as priority.

hungryhound
08-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Crackatinny,

I agree that most of the issue here is with large or small has an advantage, but if people were feeling like they were throwing away one of their photo opportunities by entering TOTM then my suggestion would help get more tanks involved each month, and it would alleviate the excuses for not posting in tank of the month.


Hungry, I think the main issue here was.
Does size matter?
And I think you will agree it does not.

very true. I think size is irrelevent, I was just trying to alleviate some of the excuses I saw or felt were underlying some of the posts in this thread.

TracyUK
08-03-2007, 04:40 PM
I certainly agree with the two pics on each thread suggestion.

Drumachine09
08-03-2007, 05:28 PM
You also have to remember. For every person that wants 2 per contest, there is one that wants 1 per contest.

Also, think about hobbs job. She, out of the kidness of her heart, uploads them on to photobucket for us all to enjoy. She already has a ton of pictures on her hands. Now what if we were to double that? Thats a lot of un-necesary work.




Crackatinny, if you need your pictures joined, let me know.

hungryhound
08-03-2007, 05:40 PM
You also have to remember. For every person that wants 2 per contest, there is one that wants 1 per contest.

Also, think about hobbs job. She, out of the kidness of her heart, uploads them on to photobucket for us all to enjoy. She already has a ton of pictures on her hands. Now what if we were to double that? Thats a lot of un-necesary work.




Crackatinny, if you need your pictures joined, let me know.

I love hobbs and respect what she does, but I still have not figured out why she needs to upload each and every photo every month to a seperate photobucket account.

When we upload the pictures to this site they are housed and stored on this site. correct? Why not just leave them on the site. Upload the winners to a winners page and delete the rest.

Why are we wasting time moving them each and every week?

The unnecessarily work seems to be transferring them to photo bucket. it just seems like we have craeted more work and made it more complicated than we need to.

In all honesty I may be wrong and would welcome knowing the reason why. I will gladly admit that I was wrong.

crackatinny
08-03-2007, 06:15 PM
Guys/Gals, I think this comes down to being fair to all.

example.
here is a pic of my 200G, as aposed to, here is a pic of my 20G
here is a pic of my heavily planted tank, as aposed to, the plants are fake but it looks good.
here is my tank, since the pic I have lost a few.

A lot to do with a fairnes thing I think, (no comments, just a pic) as well as easier viewing for members, I have been on both sides of the ropes here, and I had argued with hobbs before about trying to make pics for comps anonimous, but since becoming a mod, I see what she is up against.

There is a lot of work on the side you guys/gals don't see, Hobbs does all the comp work herself, trying to make it fair for every member on here.

At the moment our main concern is the problems seen over the past months with, spammers and people comming on just to harrass you members.

Give it time and we will discuss matters like improving the comps etc, but in the meantime, please persavere, a lot go's on behind the scenes that members never see. The forum has been fairly free of spam and anoying members recently you all must agree.

I am sorry, if this seems a bit straightforward, but our priority is the enjoyment and safety of the forum for all members.

Any suggestions on improving the comps, or the forum, will be looked at, but fair go, We are all doing our best.

Drumachine09
08-03-2007, 06:28 PM
Exactly. So much stuff has changed in the last month.

Things are being investigate, spammers are frequenting the site, among alot of other things. We are trying to fit 10 pounds of....um.....water in a 5 pound bag. It all cant be done right now.

nanaglen2001
08-03-2007, 06:43 PM
Thats the reason folks I never want to be a Mod in a forum.

I have been for a while, but I quit, and I really dont regret it, cause I was informed afterwards what kind of ugly hassle I missed. (Thank heaven)

I know what work it is to keep a forum alive and the users happy, so I think we just stick to the competitions as they are now. At least for the moment.

And by the way, I have a big tank, but did I win yet??? Nope, so size doesnt matter at all.:ezpi_wink1:

hungryhound
08-03-2007, 06:46 PM
I understand completely that being a mod is a thankless job and you guys do not get enough credit for the job you do, and that there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes, which is why I asked:


When we upload the pictures to this site they are housed and stored on this site. correct? Why not just leave them on the site. Upload the winners to a winners page and delete the rest.

Why are we wasting time moving them each and every week?

This seems to be an unnecessary step that is creating lots of work for you guys , with out much of a payoff.

Please tell me why this step is needed, because if is not needed (like it appears) eliminating it will save you guys a lot of time and headaches.

I am not asking you guys to do more work. I am trying to figure out why you are doing more work than you need to.

Maybe I did not phrase my question clear enough. please just answer the following question.

Why are all of the pictures from the contest moved from this site to the photobucket account each week?

hungryhound
08-03-2007, 06:53 PM
Exactly. So much stuff has changed in the last month.

Things are being investigate, spammers are frequenting the site, among alot of other things. We are trying to fit 10 pounds of....um.....water in a 5 pound bag. It all cant be done right now.

Honestly what does this have to do with the price of beans in Chile. i asked you why you do an extra time consuming step in the hopes of eliminating it so that your job will be easier and you reply with basically (yeah were overworked).

I know this. I am trying to make your life simpler. Just because something has been done in the past does not mean that it is the correct and simplest way to do things. By always asking why and how we are doing things we can find ways to improve them and make the mundane tasks simpler and easier.

but if we bury our heads in the sand like your reply does and continue to do the same thing over and over again we will never find a way to improve the process.

Drumachine09
08-03-2007, 07:00 PM
Honestly what does this have to do with the price of beans in Chile. i asked you why you do an extra time consuming step in the hopes of eliminating it so that your job will be easier and you reply with basically (yeah were overworked).

I know this. I am trying to make your life simpler. Just because something has been done in the past does not mean that it is the correct and simplest way to do things. By always asking why and how we are doing things we can find ways to improve them and make the mundane tasks simpler and easier.

but if we bury our heads in the sand like your reply does and continue to do the same thing over and over again we will never find a way to improve the process.


Ask hobbs. You dont undestand what i am telling you.

Hobbs puts together the album FOR THE FORUM. It is there for you to use at your discretion. Wether you make use of it or not, its hobbs decision to make it.

crackatinny
08-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Sorry hungy, when I posted my last post I did not want to refere to your previous post, I hate singling posts out to reply to, as I try not to pffend anyone.
But, here is how I see it. Bare in mind, I am looking through a 2 way mirror here, I have nothing to do with the comps, yet see the other workload hobbs is under.

OK, picture nomination thread?

Here is a pic of my heaverly planted 90G tankl.

Here is a pic of my 5G tank with one betta

Here is a pic of my 55G tank, the angel you see is since passed away

Oh I wish I could do better, but here is a pic of my 75G

Sorry mate, but taking the comments way, along with a lot of other things, makes a difference, honestly, I would rather look at a pic of a tank, that I do not even know who owns.
If you look back through this thread, Robbie had a debate with hobbs about my own tank in the last comp, I kept out of it because it was a conflict involving myself, but bottom line, my tank was not up to scratch.

Look at the big picture please, yes a lot of work putting them in photobucket, but without comments on size, real or fake surroundings, etc, it must make i fairer?, it does to me

hungryhound
08-03-2007, 07:18 PM
Ask hobbs. You dont undestand what i am telling you.

evidently I missed something. Can you please explain how your response answered my question.

Tell me if I am wrong here. This is my summary of the thread.

1. it was asked if we could have more categories for the tank of the month.

2. General consensus was that size did not matter and if we did split it up that there would not be enough pictures to make all of the categories competitive.

3. I asked/ suggested that instead of have two pictures per month in either catagory that you are allowed two per category. That way there would be no excuses for people not to enter in the totm and POtm every month if they wanted to do both.

4. You drumachine told me that hobbs allready has to do a lot of work moving the pcitrues each and every week., and that was why it would not work.

5. I asked why the pictures are offloaded to photobucket each week instead of keeping them housed on the site? Hoping that you guys might be able to eliminate this step and save some time. I was trying to make your life easier.

6. Drum and Crack tell me that the moderators are overworked and will look into, but never answer my question.

7. I restate my question clearly.

8. You still don't answer my question and tell me I am do not understand what you are saying.

Now looking at this summary of the post please tell me where I misunderstood you and what I am not understanding?

I think I have been clear in my points and you have failed to answer my question of why the pictures are moved every week.

Please go back and quote your post that states Factually that the pictures are moved to photobucket every month because ...l.........

hungryhound
08-03-2007, 07:37 PM
Sorry hungy, when I posted my last post I did not want to refere to your previous post, I hate singling posts out to reply to, as I try not to pffend anyone.
But, here is how I see it. Bare in mind, I am looking through a 2 way mirror here, I have nothing to do with the comps, yet see the other workload hobbs is under.

OK, picture nomination thread?

Here is a pic of my heaverly planted 90G tankl.

Here is a pic of my 5G tank with one betta

Here is a pic of my 55G tank, the angel you see is since passed away

Oh I wish I could do better, but here is a pic of my 75G

Sorry mate, but taking the comments way, along with a lot of other things, makes a difference, honestly, I would rather look at a pic of a tank, that I do not even know who owns.
If you look back through this thread, Robbie had a debate with hobbs about my own tank in the last comp, I kept out of it because it was a conflict involving myself, but bottom line, my tank was not up to scratch.

Look at the big picture please, yes a lot of work putting them in photobucket, but without comments on size, real or fake surroundings, etc, it must make i fairer?, it does to me

Thanks for the response. and I think that I need to appoligize for high jacking this thread. i should have started a new one.

To me the issue of whether the all inclusive TOTM category was fair was a dead issue and was answered earlier.

Reading back through the posts it seemed that there were multiple quotes along these lines.


well, if you don't submit your picture you may never know if your tank is good or bad.


I understand why some might want to have size catagories for this comp. but I agree with Hobbs- you can always enter 2 POTM.


As of last Oct or Nov, our selections were of 5 or 6 tanks. The contests have only gotten this big in the last few months. If they should drop back off again, it would be pretty difficult to have 4 categories with only 6 or 7 entries. It would no longer be a contest.

Seeing this is seemed to me that if the category idea was ever going to fly we would need to encourage more participation in the contests.

That is why I suggested.

if you want to get more tanks submitted each month. The best thing to do would be to change the rules of the number of pictures that one can submit. Instead of only being able to post two pictures total in both catagories, make it so that you can post 2 pictures in TOTM and two pictures in POTM.

I was then told by Drum. this reason for why it would not work.


Also, think about hobbs job. She, out of the kidness of her heart, uploads them on to photobucket for us all to enjoy. She already has a ton of pictures on her hands. Now what if we were to double that? Thats a lot of un-necesary work.

That is why I asked if it was even necessary to transfer them to phtotobucket? and am still waiting on an answer.

To me it seems clear that the pictures can be easily viewed in the submission thread without transferring them to phtobucket. There is no issue with bandwidth for the submission thread because that thread is left up for the entire month.

The only advantage to transferring them to photobucket is that it allows you to view it as a slide show.


But the negatives of moving it seem to be much worse.

It is very time consuming and I do not know that many people take advantage of it.

So my question is whether this practice is truly a good use of your precious time.

it might be simpler and easier to allow everyone to upload their pictures to the submission thread.

let everyone click on the thumbnails to view the pictures

Vote on the winner

then only transfer the winning photos.

delete the rest of the submission thread.

To me this plan saves you guys as mods an extra 2 to 3 hours of doing "lots of work behind the scenes" that is never noticed.

Then if you want to go the route of changing the contest to make it one or two pictures per contest, you can safely do that without increasing your workload.

Lady Hobbs
08-03-2007, 09:11 PM
I have been sitting back trying not to say anything because right now I am so disgusted it might not be safe to say anything.

I can't believe all the whining and crying I am hearing in this thread. One wants this, one wants that and another wants something else. One of the biggest attractions of this site is the photo contests which everyone has enjoyed.....up until now.

The rules were set up by William and myself. He is the site manager and has the final say. I offered suggested and he offered suggestions and between the two of us, the rules were formed in what we felt the good of the forum and all involved.

In the beginning, as I previously mentioned, only 4 or 5 pictures were submitted. Back then it wasn't a big deal to post huge pictures and submit as many as you wanted. But the contests grew and with the growth there had to come changes.

When it was decided that thumbnails had to be used, what a huge stink that caused!! Because some people have DSL and get downloads quickly, they thought everyone should. Unfortunately for those living in rural areas, dial- ups are all they can get so waiting for a thread to download 20 huge pictures was an inconvenience. Threads need to be kept uniform, convenient for everyone to access and not to give one contestant advantage over anyone.
I might add that thumbnails leave the work of resizing your pictures up to you and not to me, as they did previously. Why that ever turned into such a fiasco I'll never know. Adding your link to the body of the post is no harder than adding it to Manage Attachments.

If you look around the net and check out different forums, you will see very few have contests at all. Now I can see why!! Even those that do have contests allow 10 pictures. All the pictures are looked at by the judging panel and from those only 10 are picked to go to the polls. You guys get all your pictures out there and we have no limit on only 10 pictures. How would you like to submit your pictures and have them tossed out by the judges and not even going to the vote?

As far as the photobucket site, this was my idea and no one else was involved with that. I paid for the site myself because I thought it would be a convenience to you. It also allowed a place to store old pictures in archieves and give you a place to view pictures as a slideshow. I don't care if you ever go there. You can see the pictures in the threads just fine. But because some people might prefer the site, I will continue loading them to the site for those that do enjoy it.

The certificates were also my idea. I made them and also store them so if anyone wants to gripe about those as well, now would be the time.

The contest rules are not changing!!! They are the way they are for a reason. And it has nothing to do with how much of MY TIME I donate to my site.

Sorry Bill your thread turned into this whiney mess. I realize you were just asking a simple question and never planned on it going this far.

RobbieG
08-03-2007, 10:02 PM
I apologize for my stupid comment Lady Hobbs - I was wrong and never meant to question the job that you do running the contest. You and all the other volunteers do a fantastic job keep this the best site on the net.

crackatinny
08-03-2007, 10:06 PM
With that said.

I am going to make a descion to CLOSE THIS THREAD.

Any complaints toward this disission, can be forwarded to myself via PM

hungryhound
08-03-2007, 10:53 PM
I wanted to say my final words here.

First off I wanted to apologize to Bill. I Shoudl not have hijacked your thread. Sorry Buddy,

I want to apologize to Crackatinny and Drumachine09 as I should not have pushed so hard to try and get an answer to my question.

I would like to apologize to hobbs. I was not trying to belittle your job. I have the utmost respect for the mods and the job that they do. I am sorry.

I was trying to get a handle on why and how the contest worked and got to wrapped up in getting my question answered. I should not have been so forceful.

Finaly I would like to apologize to the board as a whole and anyone else I may have offended in my heated discussion.

thanks.

hungryhound