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View Full Version : My clown loaches got ICH



zqia014
07-13-2007, 04:41 AM
Hi all, I'm new here and name is Michael.

Got 3 clown loaches last friday, only a week ago, now one of them is showing slight signs of white spot, other two are looking fine, all of them look and act healthy.

Went into fish shop today and got this medicine called BLUE CIRCLE, was told it was 100% for full strength dosage and it is not toxic for clown loaches, neon tetras and bristlenose catfish.

The white spot is showing on some of my neon tetras and bristlenose as well, max. I've seen on a fish is 3.

So anyway I put the medicine in my tank this morning, was wondering if I should continue to feed my fishes as normal.

Thanks for any help.

Lady Hobbs
07-13-2007, 06:04 AM
They probably won't eat but you can try some. Generally ick meds for loaches you can only use half doses so hope this stuff doesn't make them ill. Loaches are prone to ick and they probably got it from the stress of a new home.

Remove carbon if using it.

zqia014
07-13-2007, 06:17 AM
Thanks for the reply.

I've actually just fed them before I saw your reply, the fish all ate like normal, same with the loaches they came out for their share of the bloodworms.

Still quite shy though, they would hide in the back of the tank most of the day and come out at night to explore around the tank and find food, when I walk up to the tank they would go hide, but if I stay still they would come out again very shortly, or I can just slowly sneak up to the tank and they would continue to do whatever they are doing.

Funny thing is only one of the 3 has a few white spots, can't see any in the other two, did look at the gills carefully, they are all healthy and active and seem unaffected by the medicine.

More advise appreciated. Thanks a lot.

Lady Hobbs
07-13-2007, 06:34 AM
Now that I can see that you have loaches in an uncycled tank I can understand why they have ick. When they are stressed their immune system gets weakend and this parasite will invade them.

zqia014
07-13-2007, 06:42 AM
You've probably seen my other thread, the tank is actually 7 months old.

Lady Hobbs
07-13-2007, 07:08 AM
It may be 7 months old but apparently it isn't cycled or you wouldn't have this ammonia spike. Did you happen to just do a huge cleaning of the tank? Perhaps that killed your bioload.

zqia014
07-13-2007, 07:20 AM
No huge cleaning was done.

Though I did start to change my water 15% weekly, rather than 24% fornightly 3 weeks ago, started doing this because it seems to be a better water change schedule and less stressful on the fish.

One reason I can think of, is that the sponge in my internal Eheim filter is getting too old, replaced it today with a new one, in fact its the first replacement sponge since the tank started 7 months ago, probably LONG overdue.

Another annoying thing is there are alot of hard green spot algae on my leaves, might have to cut some leaves off as they are covered in green algae.

Lady Hobbs
07-13-2007, 07:25 AM
You can't let the outside light hit your tank. That will do it in a hurry.

zqia014
07-13-2007, 07:52 AM
Tank isn't near window, though it's in the lounge and the lounge can be fairly sunny sometimes, but most days curtains are closely as we are all at school or work.

dev
07-13-2007, 08:21 AM
No huge cleaning was done.

Though I did start to change my water 15% weekly, rather than 24% fornightly 3 weeks ago, started doing this because it seems to be a better water change schedule and less stressful on the fish.

One reason I can think of, is that the sponge in my internal Eheim filter is getting too old, replaced it today with a new one, in fact its the first replacement sponge since the tank started 7 months ago, probably LONG overdue.

Another annoying thing is there are alot of hard green spot algae on my leaves, might have to cut some leaves off as they are covered in green algae.

There is usually no need to replace the sponges as long as the filter has been operational the entire time. In fact, replacing them will usually do more harm than good. It should only be cleaned as needed, carefully, in water from the tank as not to damage the bacteria.

If you replace all of your filtermedia at once, the tank will have to be cycled again.

If this is the tank with the high ammonia readings, I would cut down on feeding.

zqia014
07-13-2007, 09:10 AM
Thanks a lot Dev.

Yes it is the same tank, so you are saying there's never a need to replace the filter as long as the filter is working continuously?

Will cut down on feeding, won't feed for the next 2-3 days.

I've also got to keep up with the ICH medicine, with the need of daily water changes to reduce ammonia, and putting in the medicine after every water change, I think at least the ICH will be gone fairly quickly.

Will get up at 7am tomorrow to do the water change, otherwise will have to wait until 5pm and that's a long time.

dev
07-13-2007, 09:39 AM
Yes it is the same tank, so you are saying there's never a need to replace the filter as long as the filter is working continuously?

Never is a strong word :) I would replace the sponge when simply cleaning it does no longer allow for enough waterflow. If there is only one sponge in the filter, I would see if it could be cut in half, so I could replace half of it at a time.

If the sponge is allowed to dry out, it will be full of dead bacteria making little room for new bacteria. So in these cases the filtermedia should be changed.



Will cut down on feeding, won't feed for the next 2-3 days.

While a few days without feeding won't do the fish any harm, you will need a little something for the bacteria to work on. I would continue to feed them, just very small amounts.



I've also got to keep up with the ICH medicine, with the need of daily water changes to reduce ammonia, and putting in the medicine after every water change, I think at least the ICH will be gone fairly quickly.

The poor water quality is likely the main reason for the disease. The frequent water changes in combination with the meds should have a good chance of clearing it up quickly.

Make sure you don't overdose the meds. If you change 25% of the water, you should add no more than 25% of the normal dose for your tank. I assume that is what you are doing, but thought I'd mention it just in case.

zqia014
07-13-2007, 10:57 AM
Actually I didn't know that, thanks for mentioning it.

The person at the fish shop assured me the medicine is 100% safe for clown loaches, tetras and bristlenoses. He didn't tell me to half the dose even with a water change.

My normal dosage should be 200 drops, which I put in today, so tomorrow, when I change 25% of the water, I should be putting in 50 drops only?

Even today I was scared of 200 drops so I put in 180 drops, fish shop guy also told me I can add another dosage when the blue colour it creates in my water clears up, well it has already cleared up, but I will add some more tomorrow anyway just in case if the medicine stresses the fish.

dev
07-13-2007, 11:57 AM
I don't know the specifics of the medication you are giving, but the general idea is that by changing 25% of the water, you are also removing 25% of the medication. As such you would normally want to replenish this by adding 25% of the normal dosage.

It sounds a bit strange that visible signs of the medication are gone already, but again I don't know the specifics - for all I know, though a little unlikely - it could have evaporated.

Does your filter media include any active carbon or other chemical filtering?

I would not risk adding a new full dosage unless I was comfortable that I had a good understanding of the medication, and that it was safe to do so. Perhaps some instructions were included in the package that could shed some light on this.

zqia014
07-14-2007, 04:35 AM
No Carbon in filter.

I added a half dose this morning af the water change, all the fish seem fine.

Actually I've noticed the white spots have already disappeared from some fishes, hanv't got a chance to take a look at the clown loach with whitespot though, last night it still had the same 6-7 spots.

The other two defintely doesn't have any, funny they havn't got it they are suppose to be the ones most prone to the disease.

Tomorrow morning when I change the water I will just add a 25% dose.

The instruction on the bottle just says 2 drops per litre of water, repeat every second day until ich disappears and one more dose even after ich disappears, but not to administer 3 consecutive doses without a water change in between.

Now I think about it, I may have overdosed by 25% today.

Cheers

Lady Hobbs
07-14-2007, 04:57 AM
Ich is not killed while on the fish but after falling from them as they reproduce in the bottom of the tank. They do have an interesting history and I'll post so you can read about it. They multiple by the thousands so it's good you are getting rid of them as they will kill the fish.
http://www.fishlore.com/Articles/CuringIch.htm

Nasty parasites for sure. You just want to treat them long enough to make sure they are goners.

zqia014
07-14-2007, 05:10 AM
Thanks Lady Hobbs

I have seen that page before, in fact I've google it and read many pages about, some state high temperature will kill it and some suggests the use of high temperature with conjunction with medicine.

Weather is quite cold here at the moment the tank wouldn't reach 30 degrees, so I just set the heater to 28 and the tank is always hovering around 27, very very little changes of course.

This morning I did my water change, about 25%, ammonia level is now 0.5ppm or slightly above, but definitely not 1ppm anymore.

Would you recommend a 25% water change tomorrow or more? maybe 40-50%?

All the fish still appear to be healthy and active.

Cheers

Lady Hobbs
07-14-2007, 05:18 AM
No. I would just check levels daily and make sure they don't get that high again. Are you showing nitrites yet?

I just hope the med you gave the loaches didn't mess with your bacteria now. Sometimes it can and practically starts the whole deal over. Fungus meds particularly.

Higher temps speeds up the cycle of the ICK so the die off is faster.

zqia014
07-14-2007, 05:21 AM
Ok thanks for that, from tomorrow I will test my water twice a day and only do any water change if ammonia level rises.

Otherwise it will slowly fall off? and Nitrite will start to show? Right now I'm not seeing any nitrite from my nitrite test kit.

Lady Hobbs
07-14-2007, 05:28 AM
You have a ways to go with the cycling yet. Pain in the neck that it is! Yes, your ammonia will start dropping as the nitrites began to climb. This is why it's soooo nice to cycle a tank with pure ammonia. You add the ammonia and let it go but of course with fish you can't do that. Feed sparingly during this cycling to help hold ammonia down. They can go days without food. If you can't stand doing that (I couldn't) just give a tiny bit every couple of days once a day.

zqia014
07-15-2007, 06:07 AM
Just an update, this morning tested my ammonia levels and it seems to have dropped a little more, this afternoon around 5pm it seems to have dropped again to about 0.25ppm.

Also all the whitespots seems to have disappeared, I want to administer one more dose after one or two days to make sure they've get killed off. It does seem to be safe on all the fish and bacteria.

If the ammonia levels keeps on dropping can I go back to my normal 15% water change every week? Planning to do one on tuesday, did one yesterday morning, the tuesday one is mainly for the purpose of the medicine and that's when I'm planning to add the last dose.

Cheers

Mdsuave13
07-15-2007, 02:58 PM
i've lost a few clown loaches to ich. I thought they were going to get better, but they don't. I used aquarisol full dosages to help them out, i have managed to bring a few back from the edge of death.

You just have to work as hard as possible to get them ok. Turn the temp up to 83-85 degrees. Put in the dosages of aquarisol daily until about 2 days after the ich is off the fish completely. It does a good job for all tetras, loaches and other really easy to kill fish.

Lady Hobbs
07-15-2007, 03:10 PM
With your ammonia levels dropping, you need to start testing for nitrites. If those get very high, water changes will be needed to help lower that as well. But do no water changing now unless you have high levels.

It takes longer for nitrites to disappear than it does for the ammonia so this is where patience comes in. When you finally have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and a high level of nitrates, then do a large water change and you're good to go.

Add your fish a few at a time. Maybe 5 a week. Don't toss a huge number in all at once or you will get an ammonia spike. AND DO NOT VAC THAT GRAVEL OR CHANGE YOUR FILTERS.

zqia014
07-15-2007, 09:34 PM
Ok, so now water change for now, just tested my ammonia this morning and it has dropped even lower, still not 0ppm though, no sign of nitrite yet.

Will add a small dose of the ICH medicine, 25% without any water change, the bottle says do water change after 3 consecutive full doses so I will definitely be safe there, plus the last dosage was the day before.

I think there is a good chance all my fish right now will survive, I'm planning to add a few corys after this is sorted out and that's about it, no more.

Cheers

Mdsuave13
07-16-2007, 12:14 AM
if your tank is re-starting a cycle, i would recommend talking to your LFS to see if you could get some media from a fully cycled tank, and also about having them keep your loaches until the cycle is complete. Loaches and ammonia or nitrite = death imminent.

zqia014
07-16-2007, 10:20 PM
Tested ammonia this morning and it's almost 0ppm now, between 0 to 0.25ppm.

Still no nitrite showing? Is this normal?

Cheers

gm72
07-17-2007, 01:38 AM
Your nitrIte spike will take a while longer to occur than will the drop in ammonia. I'll bet you'll start reading nitrIte within...maybe 2-5 days.

zqia014
07-19-2007, 07:49 AM
Just found a dead neon, surprised it died now since the ammonia level is very close to zero, did a 25% water change yesterday, no nitrite yet, all other fish look like they are doing well, especially the clown loaches!

Maybe the nitrite have been absorbed straight away and converted to nitrate? Do have lots of plants in the tank.

Two of the clown loaches still have one whitespot each, not sure if it's still ICH, all other fish are all whitespot free now.

Will keep updating.

Mdsuave13
07-20-2007, 09:20 PM
continue the treatment to every other day for a week or two more.. ich doesnt die when on the fish, only when it comes off

zqia014
07-22-2007, 10:04 PM
Ammonia is now 0ppm for 2 days now, still no nitrite.

Maybe it's been converted as it was being produced quickly enough so it doesn't build up?

Cheers

gm72
07-22-2007, 10:19 PM
Possible, yes, but in this situation you should see nitrAtes rising. Is that the case?

zqia014
07-22-2007, 10:42 PM
To be honest don't have a nitrAte test kit yet, will buy one asap within the week.

Now I think I'll go back to my 15% weekly changes.

Also going to sell my 16 white clouds, get 3-4 siamese algae eaters and a few corys instead.

Reason for the siamese algae eaters is I've got a lot of hair algae that makes my plant look fuzzy, like a thick layer of dust on them.

This will also reduce my bioload a bit I hope, plus the white clouds don't enjoy high temperatures too much anyway.

gm72
07-22-2007, 10:53 PM
15% weekly water changes are far too small. You will eventually have a nasty buildup of nitrAtes.

zqia014
07-22-2007, 11:01 PM
really? everywhere I've read suggest a 10-15% change per week, I've got lots of plants that would help as well. Guess I"ll know when I get a test kit and see how much nitrate there is.

Cheers

gm72
07-22-2007, 11:39 PM
Ah, okay, a planted tank will decrease slightly the amount of water changes necessary as they do absorb nitrAtes. Thank you for the clarification.

zqia014
07-25-2007, 09:09 PM
Ammonia seems to be rising again.

Was 0ppm on Sunday and Monday, tuesday afternoon I checked and it was rising a bit, wednesday (yesterday), did a routine 25% water change, this morning it seems to have gone closer to 0.5ppm.

Wasn't feeding too much, just a little a day.

Any ideas on this? Maybe the ICH medicine is interfering with the bacteria? Did a full dose on Saturday and then yesterday after water change.

Thanks