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William
06-07-2009, 02:57 AM
I have added another new usergroup. AC experts. This usergroup will consist of the most knowledgable members here. New members will be selected based on their aquarium knowledge and will be selected by the existing experts. A user needs the support of all existing experts to enter the usergroup. (I reserve Veto Power) Members of all usergroups can be choosen to join this usergroup and staff is as you can see not excluded.

The initial Members of this usergroup will be:
ILuvMyGoldBarb
Fishalicious
Algenco
Dave66
GM72

As well as one other member who have yet to respond on whether he want to be a part of the group or not.

The AC experts will get a badge similar to the AC helper badge in their post header making it easy for new members to see that they are knowledgable giving their advice some extra weight and trust to them.

William
06-07-2009, 03:12 AM
The expert badge
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/images/AC_Expert_Eat.gif

Courtesy of Marty.

Little Embers
06-07-2009, 03:37 AM
Please don't misunderstand me and I am definitely not saying that members are not deserving of this badge, but I do have concerns in relation to this.

My concern is that by labelling members in this way, new members may only decide to take the advice of the experts even though other members input may be just as informative and it may also feel to other members that the advice they kindly give may be considered not to be as relevant as that of the experts.

Just how I see it anyway...I could be completely wrong!

BTW! Great design Marty :19:

William
06-07-2009, 04:06 AM
It is a risk but from what I have seen that hasn't happen on other forums. Hopefully it won't happen and if it does we will have to adress it.

It can be good to have experts when freshkeepers (with good intent) post bad information. In that sitaution it is easier for new members to know which are good advice if some advice come from experts.

Wild Turkey
06-07-2009, 04:10 AM
I love the lineup! Now we just have to get some of them posting more!:hmm3grin2orange: j/k :P

I think its a good update, any ill effects will have to be touch and go like pretty much all new stuff is

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 04:15 AM
Please don't misunderstand me and I am definitely not saying that members are not deserving of this badge, but I do have concerns in relation to this.

My concern is that by labelling members in this way, new members may only decide to take the advice of the experts even though other members input may be just as informative and it may also feel to other members that the advice they kindly give may be considered not to be as relevant as that of the experts.

Just how I see it anyway...I could be completely wrong!

BTW! Great design Marty :19:

Little Embers, this group will do 2 things. First, it will be able to reinforce good advice give, and second it will be there to gently correct the incorrect advice or misinformation. The first of these 2 things is hopefully what will be the main role, and along this same line, to provide more in-depth advice where possible. :) The later of the 2 functions is something that hopefully doesn't happen, but admittedly it will happen, it is an inevitable part of any forum. The key to remember with this hobby is that there is more than one way to skin a cat and different does not equal wrong, but there is such thing as simply being wrong about things.

wolf_eyes
06-07-2009, 04:23 AM
Please don't misunderstand me and I am definitely not saying that members are not deserving of this badge, but I do have concerns in relation to this.

My concern is that by labelling members in this way, new members may only decide to take the advice of the experts even though other members input may be just as informative and it may also feel to other members that the advice they kindly give may be considered not to be as relevant as that of the experts.

Just how I see it anyway...I could be completely wrong!
:
I agree completely

Red
06-07-2009, 04:25 AM
I agree completely

I agree too!

Wild Turkey
06-07-2009, 04:40 AM
Well said brad

where is my head at today, forgot to say

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!:hmm3grin2orange:

Red
06-07-2009, 04:47 AM
But I agree with turkey, Congrats everyone and you deserve it!

William
06-07-2009, 04:50 AM
Seems to be a controversial update. Hopefully it will turn out well. If it doesn't and if you see trouble please PM me and we might have to rename the user group or reconsider it alltogether.

Hopefully however it will not cause any problem and simply do what ILuvMyGoldBard says.

Wiggs
06-07-2009, 04:54 AM
In my honest opinion, the members who know what theya re talking about and have the most knowledge stand out enough with their answers on their own. All of these user groups and pedestals are what I was happy AC WASN'T when i joined and became an active member.

This website has come to be a popularity contest in my honest opinion. it's a shame, its still a great website but so much has taken away from it for me

William
06-07-2009, 05:02 AM
thanks for voicing your opinion Wiggs and everyone else. I nwill keep in mind for the future development.

I agree completely about what you say about that what an "expert" say should be evidence in its own right. And it is for most of us. But it is unfortuantely impossible for a new member who know nothing/little about fish to make that distinction.

The expert is partly designed to rectify the popularity contest you are talking about in my opinion as it suppose to be based on knowledge alone and not popularity. But of course there are always a risk that it will turn into something else.

I can say that no new honors or usergroups are in the works for the future.

Goodbye
06-07-2009, 05:43 AM
I agree too!
I agree as well!

Wild Turkey
06-07-2009, 05:50 AM
Hopefully however it will not cause any problem and simply do what ILuvMyGoldBard says.

Sorry that just made this thead so much funnier:hmm3grin2orange:

Red
06-07-2009, 05:52 AM
Sorry that just made this thead so much funnier:hmm3grin2orange:

I agree :)

Little Embers
06-07-2009, 05:52 AM
I understand what has been said and in part the premise behind the group, with beginners not knowing what advice to take, but it just sounds as if only the "Experts" advice is to be trusted, or a members advice has to be validated by an "Expert" first before it can be taken as trustworthy.

Sorry! I may be "making a mountain out of a molehill" and most definitely CONGRATULATIONS to those recipients of the title...I sincerely do not mean to take anything away from them.

I also agree with Wiggs and all this emphasis placed on titles, reputation points etc. (and I am not saying they are a bad idea by any means or that members shouldn't be honored for their efforts and dedication), seem to take precedence over the real reason we are here, which is to help or ask advice from fellow hobbyists as well as have some fun.

Thank You William for giving consideration to the concerns raised.

William
06-07-2009, 06:05 AM
I can assure you embers tht the expert title is in no way meant to imply that advice from anyone else is less trustworthy and you or anyone elses advice will of course not be vaildated by an expert to be trust worthy.

William
06-07-2009, 06:06 AM
Would another name for it make you feel more comfortable with it?

Wild Turkey
06-07-2009, 06:12 AM
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/expert

that may help

Personally, i think Advisor/Adviser has a nice ring as well

(im fine with expert, just trying to be helpful)

William
06-07-2009, 06:19 AM
We consider using advisor as the title and if those who see trouble on the horisont feel more comfortable with that I am open tp reconsider it.

Little Embers
06-07-2009, 06:19 AM
Please do not go changing it on my account William...If the majority are happy with it, that is fine by me...:ssmile:

William
06-07-2009, 06:21 AM
Sure but a lot of people seem to agree with you and id a synonym make you all happy I will be happy to consider it.

The most important thing for me and what I try to achive with this is that everyone get the best possible advice here on AC regardless of whomever gives it.

MCHRKiller
06-07-2009, 07:59 AM
Congrats whatever you all are/will be called :afro:

I guess to me you can slap 100 different names on the banner and it would mean the same, these people have given out some good information and are being recognized for it. Popularity contests are over-rated high school BS, and Im not convinced this award is necessarily that. Its obvious the names on that list have done some work to get where they are, sure they may be well liked on the forum...heck they should be. Kind of like when somebody gets a promotion at work...there will of course be controversy over it. Just my 2 cents for what little its worth. :22:

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 11:56 AM
As a member of the new group I am hesitant to enter the debate again, however I feel there may be an example that could help some understand exactly what the purpose is.

If I need to do an oil change on my car and I want to do it myself, then I'll need to go buy oil and an oil filter. If you ever look at the oil section at an automotive parts store, you know this can be a confussing task is you don't know much about them. When I buy oil, I may have 5 different people tell me the best kind and thickness to get. I may have 2-3 people tell me to get Brand X 10w30 and 2-3 people tell me Brand Y 5w30. Now if at the store, an employee comes up to me and has an ASE patch on his/her sleeve and says your best choice is Brand X 10w30 then I know for sure I can trust that employee. Did the fact that he was a certified technician in anyway diminish the value of the advice of those other 2-3 or in anyway may the others wrong? No, he simply validated and confirmed what I was told by those others. Now if someone had told me to ad Brand Z 20w50 for my car, then yes, they would have been wrong, but that would be the exception and not the normal occurance.

This group is no different then that ASE technician. There are lots of people giving great advice around here, many of whom are not in this group. I am honored by the fact that those who chose the group included me in it. We are not here to diminish anyone's advice, just reinforce the good advice and gentely correct the bad, and quite frankly, the later of those 2 is not nearly as prevelant as the first. As I stated earlier, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and I think you will find that every member of this group recognizes that, and they would be quick to acknowledge ways that work but are simply different.

Kaz
06-07-2009, 02:27 PM
I think that the the helpers listed in the last update won by popularity, he literally asked us who we liked best.

I think these guys won by knowledge and advice given, Look in every section of this forum and you will find a primer written by Dave, say something incorrectly and ILMGB will always be there to condescendingly point out you are wrong or help you... condescendingly, GM72, Algenco and fishalicious rarely ever post but from what I can tell that is considered valuable in the moderater position and I'm sure they say something good when they actually do speak.

So there, these are some of finest members of our community, and just like the last group, I think they deserve some respect.

And you know, If I post some advice and ILMGB says something different and the person only listens to ILMGB, I'm cool with that. You know why? Because he's a AC expert.

Northernguy is a pretty awesome guy, Everybody loves him. I would run into a tree if he told me It would help my fish. That's why he's a helper. But Dave has had much more expierience with fish and I'm pretty sure the rest of these guys have too, and that's why they are experts.

Also We have a rep system, so that's a pretty easy way to judge the help you are getting, but let me say I got most of my rep by making jokes(or other advice unrelated things.).

This is my 2 cents and I will now step off my mildly offensive soapbox.

oldhead
06-07-2009, 02:52 PM
Props to you guys for making the list. There is no doubt that the members are full of good advice. However, I do feel that this update/group/user level is really one that could have been done without. Just my 2 cents....

Gayle
06-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Humm. Well I think that the members who have been chosen for this group have all worked very hard on this forum. For quite a long while too! They have always been very helpful and have great advice!! Written articles, solved problems, helped people in all groups!! I think that it is a good idea that there are various groups that have a "name". I could go and post that goldfish grow to 5 feet when you feed them puppychow, and someone would believe it. Now if someone with an expert badge comes in behind me and says Gayle is full of doggy do this is what they eat..., they will more than likely not feed their fish dog food. Those of us who have been here for a long time, and have read thousands and thousands of posts can tell who gives good advice, but new people or people who only visit the AC when they have a question may not really know who to take advice from. I have seen many times where a few people have said things that were just flat out wrong, or bad ideas. So that is going to be where an expert can step in and give the correct advice. This is not a popularity contest. There are many many members here who are very popular amongst AC posters that are not on this list. Now if William decided to have like AC King or Queen, then that would be a popularity contest. Humor, mass amounts of posts, nice comments, or cute pics is not how these people have been chosen. I am going to go ahead and speak for William now (Dont get mad), but this was NOT DONE TO HURT ANYONES FEELINGS or to say that other peoples advice is not great either. It is only the start of this, and new people will be added in the future so keep posting good advice and you may end up with a badge one day too. Ok well I will shut up now.

Congrats you guys!!!!!!!!!!

robflanker
06-07-2009, 03:50 PM
Firstly, congratulations to those selected. and thank you for all your continued help and support.

I agree with L.E. and others with a little addition. I feel like its redundant. I thought the reputation bar was meant to indicate the members who held in high regard by the general membership. At least, thats the way I look at it. If someone with no reputation and 1 post tells me something vs someone with a ton of points and a millions posts - then person B will have more weight in my mind.
While I appreciate the new distinctions, I feel they are sorta redundant. Just my $0.02 - but I do not want to detract from recognizing the selected members. They have always been helpful and I hold them in high regard with or without a title. Keep up the fine work!

Kaz
06-07-2009, 03:59 PM
Humm. Well I think that the members who have been chosen for this group have all worked very hard on this forum. For quite a long while too! They have always been very helpful and have great advice!! Written articles, solved problems, helped people in all groups!! I think that it is a good idea that there are various groups that have a "name". I could go and post that goldfish grow to 5 feet when you feed them puppychow, and someone would believe it. Now if someone with an expert badge comes in behind me and says Gayle is full of doggy do this is what they eat..., they will more than likely not feed their fish dog food. Those of us who have been here for a long time, and have read thousands and thousands of posts can tell who gives good advice, but new people or people who only visit the AC when they have a question may not really know who to take advice from. I have seen many times where a few people have said things that were just flat out wrong, or bad ideas. So that is going to be where an expert can step in and give the correct advice. This is not a popularity contest. There are many many members here who are very popular amongst AC posters that are not on this list. Now if William decided to have like AC King or Queen, then that would be a popularity contest. Humor, mass amounts of posts, nice comments, or cute pics is not how these people have been chosen. I am going to go ahead and speak for William now (Dont get mad), but this was NOT DONE TO HURT ANYONES FEELINGS or to say that other peoples advice is not great either. It is only the start of this, and new people will be added in the future so keep posting good advice and you may end up with a badge one day too. Ok well I will shut up now.

Congrats you guys!!!!!!!!!!

Every time you write a really long post without indentation, a puppy cries.

Wild Turkey
06-07-2009, 04:02 PM
I can see both sides of this argument.

First and foremost, that is pretty much the complete list of people I give out to someone who has a question that I cant answer. That alone makes them experts imo. And it saves me the time of having to type out the list LOL

I know most of the hobbyists on that list have at least a decade of experience

In the same respect i can see how "expert" is too strong of a word for some

However, i really cant see how this would be a popularity contest, as Will handpicked this usergroup and i think he did a good job.

The difference between the two user groups is one was selected by members, the others by Will. So if anything, the title i received is a popularity contest, not this one.

To me, the usergroups mean this:

(Helpers)

I can pm this person with noob questions and he wont mind spending some time with me, even though I have no prior knowledge.
(Experts)

This person is more likely to have the answer to more indepth questions I may have. Generally, very experienced keepers that are willing to share their immense knowledge.


Seems pretty simple and appropriate to me. Look at the two usergroup lists again with that in mind... Personally, I think both lists are pretty top notch if I have the right idea about the function of each group

gm72
06-07-2009, 04:12 PM
This is my 2 cents and I will now step off my mildly offensive soapbox.

It was indeed at least mildly offensive.

Let's please stick to the topic instead of calling good members condescending. Such comments have no place in this thread or anywhere else in the forum.

So, I am hearing several different thoughts here. Some of you like the idea, some of you think it is redundant in comparison to the reputation system, and some of you feel like the label name is not appropriate.

Are there any other lines of thought here that we should discuss?

Thank you all for the feedback. We are indeed listening.

oldhead
06-07-2009, 04:15 PM
I see your point but can you tell me why this group is even necessary in the first place? What warranted it's creation? Did we have a bunch of newly registered people seeming confused about whom to take advice from? Were those that have been here for a while still not sure who others thought to be expert? Personally the whole thing seems kinda silly to me. You can wear a badge but at the end of the day it's up to the person reading to decide your level of expertise.

Red
06-07-2009, 04:20 PM
I also agree with oldhead, it feels like you are spliting up people for no apparent reason. So lets say I get in a argument with helper a or expert a, and I am totally right, and they are wrong, but the noob listens to the helper or expert and messes up there entire tank. I just see a flaw in this equation, I could see giving out this badge when you hit a certain number of posts and a certain amount of rep.

Kaz
06-07-2009, 04:35 PM
THE REP SYSTEM IS FLAWED!

Should this person:
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=44928

Be here:
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/memberlist.php?do=getall&page=3&pp=30&order=desc&sort=reputation

I don't think I should be on that spot for for guessing that the picture smaug posted was of a pirate perch.

And I was never trying to be offenive about ILMGB, he has every right to be condenscending.

gm72
06-07-2009, 04:47 PM
Just to close this part of the discussion, and this is not necessarily directed to you, Kaz, but to everyone. No one has the "right" to be condescending.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/condescending

As for rep, everyone deserves the spot they have on the rep list. Rep is not a perfect system nor will it ever be. As previously identified rep can be given for posting a funny joke that doesn't even have anything to do with fish. In order to govern rep so that it is applied only for good fish-related advice we would have to review every single rep point awarded. Never going to happen.

So, getting back to the Expert group debate, any other opinions?

Wild Turkey
06-07-2009, 04:52 PM
Yea thats not so much the rep system, as its just easier to get rep now Kaz, so flying past a bunch of inactives that may know more than you is totally normal.

Its because when i joined the site, "10" was a lot of rep to get from a post, now even i give out well over 100

Kaz
06-07-2009, 04:53 PM
As for rep, everyone deserves the spot they have on the rep list. Rep is not a perfect system nor will it ever be. As previously identified rep can be given for posting a funny joke that doesn't even have anything to do with fish. In order to govern rep so that it is applied only for good fish-related advice we would have to review every single rep point awarded. Never going to happen.


Which is why I like this system more.

bushwhacker
06-07-2009, 04:57 PM
when i saw the ac helper badge, i thought that was a great idea, lets you know at a glance that the community thinks highly of these people.. no one will deny that dave 66 is an expert, or algenco.. i just dont care for the whole idea of setting up a group like this.... just my opinion

Kaz
06-07-2009, 05:02 PM
when i saw the ac helper badge, i thought that was a great idea, lets you know at a glance that the community thinks highly of these people.. no one will deny that dave 66 is an expert, or algenco.. i just dont care for the whole idea of setting up a group like this.... just my opinion

So what's the difference between the helpers and the experts that make you like one and not the other?

Wiggs
06-07-2009, 05:04 PM
I think everyone should just state their opinion and leave. Lets not hang around and instigate.

robflanker
06-07-2009, 05:05 PM
One was user-nominated, and the other William selected I think

gm72
06-07-2009, 05:07 PM
The nominees were discussed in depth among the Mod team with William leading the way, of course.

Kaz
06-07-2009, 05:07 PM
One was user-nominated, and the other William selected I think

I thought it was the other way around.

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 05:16 PM
I could see giving out this badge when you hit a certain number of posts and a certain amount of rep.

There is the problem, the whole reason this group is not linked to rep or post count is because neither one is a good judge of a person's expertise. Quite frankly, I've seen posters who post a lot without saying anything meaningful. I've also seen people shoot up the reputation list simply because they were well liked, not because they were knowledgeable. We have the helpers group here and those 2 things are the standards by which they are judged. That is not to say they are not knowledgeable, because the exact opposite is true. They are "helpers" because of the many hours of work they have put into this site to make it better. It is a case of acknowledging someone for their hard work.

I'm going to get blunt here for a minute. I'm not pointing fingers at any one person on this forum here so please do not feel singled out by this. When I first joined AC, the knowledge level was high, and there was a lot of good accurate information being passed along. In recent months, however, some of what is being passed off as good animal husbandry is atrocious, and some of the information being passed along ranges from being just slightly off, to being out in left field and it frequently goes unchecked. The job of the moderators around here is to keep the peace, not to keep all information accurate. I have personally spoke to other people who have visited AC and have refused to stick around because they couldn't believe what was being passed off for good info and good care habits. These are people who have been in the hobby for a good while, and are very knowledgeable about the hobby. I have spent a lot of time on 2 different forums that have gone way down hill because of the knowledge level going way down. One of those forums is no longer in existence, and Dave can attest to this because he came from the same forum as did at least 2 other members that I know of. Some online forums I have seen are nothing more than "pooled ignorance" and while AC is nowhere near that level, accuracy of information must be held as a high priority. This group was created to insure that that priority is kept at a high level.

This group rewards people for having a high level of knowledge about the hobby, the helper group acknowledges those who work hard to make this site a better place, and the top contributors list acknowledges the hard workers. Does it not seem just a bit hypocritical to be in favor of the later 2 and against this one?

gm72
06-07-2009, 05:25 PM
Here is another point I'd like to make for those of you who may be questioning the members chosen for the groups. There are frequently background stories that some of you may not know about. Perhaps bad issues from before you were here or internal issues we as Mods have had or are having with members. These issues are closely tracked and we talk about just about every single thing that comes up.

So, the decisions may not be inherently clear to some of you, but we do take care to make choices we feel are right by carefully discussing and evaluating members.

Good discussion so far. Please do keep the opinions coming.

Red
06-07-2009, 05:31 PM
Does it not seem just a bit hypocritical to be in favor of the later 2 and against this one?

No, because as you shoud know, it takes a long time to write profiles and to write articles and to get pictures. No one is choosing anyone for that, you are doing it yourself. If you get what I am saying..:22:

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 05:48 PM
No, because as you shoud know, it takes a long time to write profiles and to write articles and to get pictures. No one is choosing anyone for that, you are doing it yourself. If you get what I am saying..:22:

It takes a long time to read, study, practice, and gain knowledge too. In fact, it takes a lot longer.:22:

Fishalicious
06-07-2009, 05:52 PM
I feel very honored to be picked in this group - thank you! and hope it doesn't cause any bad feelings towards those that have been picked.

Red
06-07-2009, 05:52 PM
It takes a long time to read, study, practice, and gain knowledge too. In fact, it takes a lot longer.:22:

And your telling me this why? I have read over 100 books and subscribe to multiple magazines and read all the time. I just feel that it is splitting up the forum and putting other long term members over each other. I just don't really appreciate the whole thing.

robflanker
06-07-2009, 05:54 PM
And your telling me this why? I have read over 100 books and subscribe to multiple magazines and read all the time. I just feel that it is splitting up the forum and putting other long term members over each other. I just don't really appreciate the whole thing.

I concur with RS on this - i feel like its unnecessarily devisive

William
06-07-2009, 05:54 PM
AC Helpers where voted for by the members. I made sure that no one knew how what the poll was for other then to find the most helpful members as I wanted to give them a nod.

AC Experts were chosen by me in co operation with the staff.

I am getting two what I feel is mutually exclusive opinions here, that this makes it into a popularity contest and that the rep system would do as well. The rep system is based on so much more than knowledge. You can be a great comic and earn a lot of rep on the forum for entertaining the rest of us but that doesnít necessary make you a good knowledgeable fish keeper. I have tried to get away from this as it is hand picked members in a group that you can belong to even if you are the most hated man on AC as long as you are knowledgeable.

However I do hear some good points. One is that no one is an expert in all fields and that expert therefore might be a poor term. I will have to consider changing the name to advisor.

As for this update being unnecessary I guess that is a matter of opinion. I do however see anything and everything we can do to try and make sure that people donít get bad advice is worth doing. 99% of all members on this forum give great advice and 99.9% of all advice that is given is good advice. I am just trying to make the number 100% as I think it would be a shame if a newbie get bad advice and is deterred from this wonderful hobby due to it.

It should also be said that this isnít just about our needs now it is also about predicting our needs for the future. To guarantee that this stays a fantastic place even as the forum continues to grow and is better to be pro active than reactive as it can be hard to solve existing problems.

It should also be noted that every time we choose mods a lot of you are upset because we donít choose the candidate you think deserve it. Now we created user groups that allows us to recognize more members for the work they do around here, (as unfortunately not all can be made mods) Members that truly deserves the nod and we recognize them for the qualities you think make them worthy to be moderators. It might seem unnecessary or like a popularity contest to some but I/we are really only trying to make the forum and advice as good as possible and as fair as possible. A place where you are recognized for what you do for the forum if you do something out of the ordinary. And to do something out of the ordinary on the forum with the best members anywhere is not a small feat.

Red
06-07-2009, 05:58 PM
I really find it disappointing that you are splitting up more members and including and not including some members into things and takening some members out of the things. Its just more upsetting to me, then making me angry.:22:

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 06:08 PM
I'll just make this final observation and then bow out of the discussion.

The "most helpful user" update didn't spark this kind of debate and neither did the "top contributors" update. I'll not draw any public conclusions about this as it seems to speak for itself.

gm72
06-07-2009, 06:15 PM
William has posted an outstanding and perhaps the most important point. We are going through some growing pains. William is spending an inordinate amount of time getting us ready for the next level. We need to be ready for that next level by moving forward the systems that are already in place.

Everyone makes good points though, and I know I speak for the entirety of the Mod team by saying that we appreciate your ongoing input and support.

William
06-07-2009, 06:35 PM
I agree partely adam but on the other hand members who devoted themselves to this site (like yourself) and spend a lot of time here might deserve an extra nod.

For those of you who expressed concern about some member being kept more in the loop then others. When ever possible I will ask for and listen to the general consensus of the forum but sometimes I can not do that for different reason and then it can be good to have members who are online a lot to talk about things with.

I have recieved a lot of great opinions in the thread that will help me for the future development of the forum

Red
06-07-2009, 06:39 PM
I agree partely adam but on the other hand members who devoted themselves to this site (like yourself) and spend a lot of time here might deserve an extra nod.

I agree too, and to my point, it is flawed. The more everyone discusses this, the more I am leaning on the fence, but then again, when there is change, not everyone could be happy:22:
(I like how everyone could discuss this is a civil manner besides ILMGB:hmm3grin2orange: just kidding)

William
06-07-2009, 06:48 PM
But then again, when there is change, not everyone could be happy:22:


Sad, but very very true.

I try to make updates that improve the site for everyone and make updates to all different areas so every one get improvements but unfortunately not everyone can like every update. As long as most of you are happy with most of the updates I think we do a good job.

I am very happy that everyone have expressed their opinion in this thread. It is great and the only way Myself and the staff can now what you think and continue to improve the site with the members rather than detached from the members.

Gayle
06-07-2009, 06:48 PM
Wow! Ok ok I think that if you are going to change this at all, advisor would be a great name. I think that each type of fish should have an advisor as well, but that is just me. LOL Just saying that if I were new here and I posted a ? about Gouramis and did not get an answers or ones that seemed wrong, how would I know who to PM and ask for help?? I have seen some site that list keepers of each type of fish, so when you go to that section you can see the names of people who have that fish and know who to ask for help. So maybe as a stcky under each group you could add a list of advisors and then maybe some keepers that way if a new person needs help they have a list to refer to. IDK I am just babbling again. Sorry.

William
06-07-2009, 06:52 PM
I considered adding an advisor for each area. Would require a lot of buttons though.

Hmmm perhaps I should make it possible to click the expert/advisor badge and see information about the areas that member knows a lot about.

Gayle
06-07-2009, 07:09 PM
Um that would be cool. But if people do not see a list of the advisors it wouldnt help new people out much.

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 07:11 PM
Hmmm perhaps I should make it possible to click the expert/advisor badge and see information about the areas that member knows a lot about.
Are you sure you have enough server space to cover Dave???:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


I like that idea.

Gayle
06-07-2009, 07:14 PM
LOL right!!!!!!

oldhead
06-07-2009, 07:37 PM
I'm still struggling to comprehend how creating a group to give certain members a nod somehow contributes to the overall accuracy of things that occur on this site. You see, before the group these members were working to accomplish that very same goal as it's been stated and appears. So how is the creation of a badge/group going to better this site for the future? I'm going to go hands off after this post as it's obvious that it's a beat discussion. The update is here to stay, I get that... though I don't agree with it. I've been a member/moderator/administrator and owner of several forums in my adult life. Never have I come across one such as this one which spends its days and nights trying to find new ways to honor the same people time and again. Good day to you all.

DrNic
06-07-2009, 07:41 PM
Looks like there is some debate here. I think it's a good idea and just wanted to say congrats to the new group! Good stuff!thumbs2:

William
06-07-2009, 08:00 PM
I have mentioned giving a nod because this debate has been truner to be about both helper and experts.

The primary reason for having experts is to make sure that the quality of the answers remain good as the site grows but that doesn't mean that it can't serve secondary purposes like recognizing their knowledge as well.

Northernguy
06-07-2009, 08:03 PM
Hi! This is a different type of update! eh! lol
Congradulations to all the New Expert/advisors!
I have absolutely no problems with any of this!I joined this site because I was given such good advice in the first place!
I always looked up to the mods for advice when I first joined here.
I didn't know who to trust but sound advice stands out!This is also the first forum I ever joined and the only one I ever cared to be part of!

bushwhacker
06-07-2009, 08:49 PM
where i have a problem is not with the people selected, its the word itself.. we all have gone to the fish store for EXPERT ADVICE.. we have hundreds of scientists all over the world who are climate EXPERTS... cant any one of them agree on global warming... i've had fish for 30 years i rarely lose one but that doesnt make me an expert.... expertise is a learning process and it never stops..... lose the word william and stop this debate
JMHO Bushwhacker

William
06-07-2009, 08:55 PM
Thanks for adressing that. I have repeatedly asked if it would be better if we change the name to advisors but no one seems to want to answer that. Now you have and I hope others will follow your example.

Everyone. WOuld it feel better if we remove the often missused term EXPERTS and change it to advisor, Fishesouir or something else

wolf_eyes
06-07-2009, 08:58 PM
This kinda got into a bigger debate than I thought it would. I do think that the people picked for this were of good choice. Please don't think that because i don't agree with the idea that I have anything against those chosen. You all are great and I'm happy that you get the recognition. Congratulations! I also don't think that's this is a "popularity contest" as some have said because these people certainly know their stuff.

I do, however, agree with those that say that newer members will take advice given by "experts" and "helpers" more seriously than other people. Now granted this is good in some cases, but there are many people on here that do know what they're talking about. We've all had different experiences and can take from that. Some members on here have learned a lesson the hard way and I feel at times they give much better advice than those that did it the right way the first time. Also, many newcomers don't have the money to spend on some products and if an expert tells them this product should be bought rather than a cheaper alternative, some people may just give up before they even start. Of course this is not a slam to ANYONE who has already been chosen, please don't take it that way, it's simply an example that I was making up.

I almost wish this was more of an award where you got a medal rather than the icon. A medal is a little more subtle and while it still tells the greatness of the person, it's doesn't weight so heavily on the eyes of the newcomer. Someone with a moving icon that says expert is of course going to be taken more seriously than someone who doesn't. I think that the awards system and the rep system keep each other in check. If someone has a lot of rep but not a lot of awards then I tend to take their advice with a little more caution. Of course I know this suggestion is kinda after the fact, since some one spent a good amount of time making the icon. If it wouldn't be too much work I would say change the name to "Adviser" and possibly make a "Adviser" for each species. I know I've said this a few times, but please don't take anything I've said as a personal attack, because that was not my intention at all

Jacko
06-07-2009, 09:02 PM
First off, congratulations to all who got the award!!!thumbs2:

My thoughts on this is that it's a great idea, though I think there should be more users included in the group, and (no offense mods) there shouldn't be many moderators included in the list. This award is to give certain people's advice extra weight, moderators already have extra weight to their posts because they are moderators, I think it should be normal members who get this award. IMO, there are alot more than just those that have won it that are deserving of this award (red sev, celtic fins, smaug to name a few)

I do think either Advisor or Mentor would be a better name than Expert. I have been on many forums where they use different groups like this to a great effect.
As to if they give wrong advice, it's one person giving wrong advice and I'm sure there will be a dozen or so people letting the poster know it was incorrect, with all the traffic this site gets.

Just my thoughts...

bushwhacker
06-07-2009, 09:06 PM
Thanks for adressing that. I have repeatedly asked if it would be better if we change the name to advisors but no one seems to want to answer that. Now you have and I hope others will follow your example.

Everyone. WOuld it feel better if we remove the often missused term EXPERTS and change it to advisor, Fishesouir or something else

advisor would take my vote

wolf_eyes
06-07-2009, 09:08 PM
I do think either Advisor or Mentor would be a better name than Expert. I have been on many forums where they use different groups like this to a great effect.


Mentor would be a GREAT choice! I do look up to the people chosen as mentors, they give great advice and you can always go to them for help. Very good word Alex thumbs2:

William
06-07-2009, 09:10 PM
I didn't want to exclude anyone from this title even staff as it would seem strange to remove this status if someone in the usergroup later become staff. But you are right that mods do not need the extra weight,

No doubt there are more members that deserve to join the group (will not mention names). I only picked the initial members and they will then together pick other members to the group.

KingFisher
06-07-2009, 09:11 PM
Mentor would be a GREAT choice! I do look up to the people chosen as mentors, they give great advice and you can always go to them for help. Very good word Alex thumbs2:


I agree, and congratulations to those chosen. I have always received very good advice from them.

William
06-07-2009, 09:12 PM
I like the term mentor as well. Seems more suitable than advisor as that sounds like they advice the site not the members. And does not have the problem associated to it that Expert does.

Anyone else like that term?

Rue
06-07-2009, 09:24 PM
I dunno. I don't think I'm sold on the idea. I feel the moderators serve as 'experts', and then once you add others in a non-mod capacity it feels more like playing favourites.

But I seem to be the only dissentor...

And I may well be wrong...(horror of horrors!:hmm3grin2orange: )

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 09:30 PM
I think the title of Mentor seems a bit more appropriate. I certainly don't think of myself as an expert. LOL

William
06-07-2009, 09:32 PM
That is why I have distanced myself from the appointment of both new groups. The member of one is choosen by the entire forum. For obvious reasons we can't choose our mods that way.

The other is choosen by the members of the group based on knowledge alone. Knowledge alone doesn't necessary make a great mod either but will do great to help keep the advice as good as possible.

It is a controversial update that is largely pro active, to make sure that the advice keep being as good as it has been so far as we keep growing.

unleashed
06-07-2009, 09:36 PM
That is why I have distanced myself from the appointment of both new groups. The member of one is choosen by the entire forum. For obvious reasons we can't choose our mods that way.

The other is choosen by the members of the group based on knowledge alone. Knowledge alone doesn't necessary make a great mod either but will do great to help keep the advice as good as possible.

It is a controversial update that is largely pro active, to make sure that the advice keep being as good as it has been so far as we keep growing.
Just wondering if you got my PM William?

Wild Turkey
06-07-2009, 09:39 PM
I like the term mentor as well. Seems more suitable than advisor as that sounds like they advice the site not the members. And does not have the problem associated to it that Expert does.

Anyone else like that term?

Mentor is funny because they are mostly old :D Just kidding guys:hmm3grin2orange: I like it

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 09:43 PM
Mentor is funny because they are mostly old :D Just kidding guys:hmm3grin2orange: I like it

Hey, I don't think That fits Jess, GM and me. LOL

Wild Turkey
06-07-2009, 09:45 PM
LOL! way to send Al and Dave down the river GB:hmm3grin2orange:

Goodbye
06-07-2009, 09:46 PM
Hmmm perhaps I should make it possible to click the expert/advisor badge and see information about the areas that member knows a lot about.

I like that idea!

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-07-2009, 09:47 PM
Oh, did I forget someone in that list?:14::blueglow:

bushwhacker
06-07-2009, 09:49 PM
works here

Kaz
06-07-2009, 11:03 PM
Mentor or advisor are good IMO, I like adviser a bit more, though.

We could go in the opposite direction and make the name more controversial, like fish master!:hmm3grin2orange: :14:

Algenco
06-07-2009, 11:13 PM
I am old.....

William
06-07-2009, 11:20 PM
Ok I will change the title to mentor as most people seem to prefer that one (sorry KAZ) and I will make the banner clickable so that when you click on it you get to a page where you can read about the specialities of each of our mentors.

I would once again would like to say that the greation of two new usergroups was to avoid favoritization as different groups of people will control these groups based on different criteria. One of those groups being all of you the forum members.

I also think it is worth mentioning again that the mentors and helpers have no benefits over other members. All members have my ear to the same degree, just send me a pm to make your voice heard. It is true that the helpers will be used as focus group for future changes but if anyone else want to be a part of that focus group all they have to do is send me a PM and I include you.

Mods and help will get some small prior warning about some updates but that is simply to be able to answer questions about the updates if I am not around when a question is asked. It is because they should be helpful. If anyone else want advance warning. Please feel free to Pm me and I will send the info in advance to you as well.

If anyone feels left out. This groups will grow over the time and I only picked the least controversial choices and most deserving choices I could think of.

bushwhacker
06-07-2009, 11:23 PM
I am old.....

if i remember right theres quite a few of us ol folks on there algenco... tho i'm old and my memory may be slippin

William
06-07-2009, 11:25 PM
I have changed the name to Mentor and removed the button until I can change the text to mentor. It will take a few min before you see the changes take effect.

Northernguy
06-07-2009, 11:32 PM
if i remember right theres quite a few of us ol folks on there algenco... tho i'm old and my memory may be slippin

Its contagious!lol

Mentors works for me!:22:

Rue
06-07-2009, 11:34 PM
...well...since we're going ahead...

I vote NG to be the stand-building mentor...:19:

Algenco
06-07-2009, 11:42 PM
...well...since we're going ahead...

I vote NG to be the stand-building mentor...:19:


I second the motionthumbs2:

William
06-07-2009, 11:43 PM
...well...since we're going ahead...

I vote NG to be the stand-building mentor...:19:

Well we have to give it a chance since it is announced. Wouldn't be very fair to remove the staus etc now would it:hmm3grin2orange:

Little Embers
06-07-2009, 11:51 PM
I will say again that I in no way meant to diminish those on the list or to detract from all their hard work/knowledge in any way....I know I am still a newcomer on this forum and it was probably not my place to even say anything. I am sorry my concern caused this much controversy.

William
06-08-2009, 12:04 AM
Don't be sorry Embers. You might be a new but i still appricate that you speak your mind. We have an open forum and the members are more then welcome to speak their mind even when they don't like it. Sure it creates some controversy at times as everyone can't like everything i do but I still thinks it is for the best. How am I to know what you guys want if you don't speal your mind and what have been said in this thread will help form how we and the forum move forward from here.

I know of forum that don't allow critic but that simply does not feel like the right way to do things.

bushwhacker
06-08-2009, 12:10 AM
...well...since we're going ahead...

I vote NG to be the stand-building mentor...:19:;

i'll second that his stands look almost as good as mine:hmm3grin2orange:

unleashed
06-08-2009, 12:28 AM
I've been very hesitant to post in this thread after reading through it for the simple reason that I didn't want to cause some raised eye-brows when what I am about to say is announced.

While William hasn't announced it yet, I was the sixth member who received an invitation to become an AC Expert/Advisor/Mentor/Brain and I accepted the offer.

The addition of this new 'group' of people, while controversial, does have some serious benefits that, in my opinion, heavily outweigh the negatives.

While I can't comment on FW because I haven't kept it in over half a decade, I can relate to my niche which is SW.

Many times we get newcomers who believe that they know best and consistently go against other users advice, no matter how good it is. ILMGB and others would probably know which threads/users/posts I am talking about.

The addition of this 'badge' will enable the newcomers to see that the information they are being given has come from someone with plenty of experience and knowledge. It will also show newcomers that this advice should not be discarded, especially if other users are posting the same things as the "expert". It will add extra weighting not just to the experts' posts, but to all posts in that thread which will hopefully lead to the newcomer making better decisions.

If a member is not sure on something, it also gives that member somewhere to turn to for individual advice via the private messaging system. That member just has to find the 'expert' who they think can best answer their question and simply flick them a PM.

There are of course other reasons why I support this new addition to the AC community, however, study is calling me as exams are soon.....

Boy do I wish I was an 'expert' at Statistics for Commerce :(

Northernguy
06-08-2009, 12:35 AM
You were obviously picked for a reason Unleashed!
Congrats! Now go study!:hmm3grin2orange:

Thanks Bw I knew it was close! lol

Little Embers
06-08-2009, 01:02 AM
The addition of this new 'group' of people, while controversial, does have some serious benefits that, in my opinion, heavily outweigh the negatives.

While I can't comment on FW because I haven't kept it in over half a decade, I can relate to my niche which is SW.

Many times we get newcomers who believe that they know best and consistently go against other users advice, no matter how good it is. ILMGB and others would probably know which threads/users/posts I am talking about.

The addition of this 'badge' will enable the newcomers to see that the information they are being given has come from someone with plenty of experience and knowledge. It will also show newcomers that this advice should not be discarded, especially if other users are posting the same things as the "expert". It will add extra weighting not just to the experts' posts, but to all posts in that thread which will hopefully lead to the newcomer making better decisions.

If a member is not sure on something, it also gives that member somewhere to turn to for individual advice via the private messaging system. That member just has to find the 'expert' who they think can best answer their question and simply flick them a PM.

There is one easy way rectify the problem of newcomers getting incorrect advice etc. and to save having to pm people.....Just cut out the middle man and only let the "Mentors" give the advice.

All these Titles do, is often just lead to division and animosity..which as you can see, has already done so...I think I have said enough on this subject..

William
06-08-2009, 03:13 AM
There is one easy way rectify the problem of newcomers getting incorrect advice etc. and to save having to pm people.....Just cut out the middle man and only let the "Mentors" give the advice.

All these Titles do, is often just lead to division and animosity..which as you can see, has already done so...I think I have said enough on this subject..
The middleman as you say give good advice most of the time. 99% of the time. Just think of this as one extra safety measure and if it safe the life of just one extra fish it will be worth it.

Lets at the very least not let it divided us as an idea. Let see what the result of this idea if. It it doesn't work out, if it cause the problem some percieve it will the group will have to be reconsidered. But it feels like a lot of the agrevation about this is due to my poor choice of word calling them experts. If we would have started with mentor less feelings might have been upset.

bushwhacker
06-08-2009, 03:22 AM
unleashed i know for one i will be pickin you brains soon i want a salt tank hehe... the ol lady aint quite on the same page yet... and in no way was i demeaning the people picked as "experts" as they all are very good... i objected to the word,,,, as i said expertise is a process never fulfilled but always strived for... i know i am far from it

William
06-08-2009, 03:26 AM
and the word is now gone

Gayle
06-08-2009, 03:37 AM
Cool! I am really glad you added a link to their areas of specialty!!! That will help out a bunch!!!

unleashed
06-08-2009, 03:37 AM
unleashed i know for one i will be pickin you brains soon i want a salt tank hehe... the ol lady aint quite on the same page yet...

No worries. Anytime my friend.

If you're that worried about the ol lady, just tell her that everything cost $25 or something significantly less that what you actually paid for it

That's what I told my parents when I still lived at home

Mystery wrasse - $250. "How much did that multi-coloured fish cost?" My response "only about $80"

William
06-08-2009, 03:39 AM
Cool! I am really glad you added a link to their areas of specialty!!! That will help out a bunch!!!

Will add when i get the new button. Haven't done so yet.

mommy1
06-08-2009, 03:44 AM
first let me say that i have nothing but mad respect for all the people chosen to be helpers and mentors. my comments are in no way meant to diminish their abilities and knowledge.
i just dont understand why we need either one of these class distinctions. isnt the distinctions of moderator enough.
anyone (old or new) can read a few posts and know beyond a shadow of doubt who is knowledgeable and who is helpful. i didnt need a badge of honor to know that Wild Turkey and Northernguy were helpful. or that Dave66 is the go to guy for fish disease. all i had to do was read a few posts.
IMO perhaps a new award would better serve your purposes. instead of a blazing title to once again show us all who is on the A-list.
this all stinks of high school to me. i graduated 25 years ago and really dont want to go back. and its a shame that that is exactly where this forum is heading. as for me well...so long and thanks for all the fish!

Gayle
06-08-2009, 03:44 AM
LOL Oh well then I am glad you will add it!!!

***giggles..........SLACKER*****

LOL Just teasin! You have done a bunch of cool stuff around here lately and I appreciate it!!

Kaz
06-08-2009, 03:52 AM
Will add when i get the new button. Haven't done so yet.

That's our administater, he always Will do it!

He's a very Willing person.

unleashed
06-08-2009, 03:55 AM
first let me say that i have nothing but mad respect for all the people chosen to be helpers and mentors. my comments are in no way meant to diminish their abilities and knowledge.
i just dont understand why we need either one of these class distinctions. isnt the distinctions of moderator enough.
anyone (old or new) can read a few posts and know beyond a shadow of doubt who is knowledgeable and who is helpful. i didnt need a badge of honor to know that Wild Turkey and Northernguy were helpful. or that Dave66 is the go to guy for fish disease. all i had to do was read a few posts.
IMO perhaps a new award would better serve your purposes. instead of a blazing title to once again show us all who is on the A-list.
this all stinks of high school to me. i graduated 25 years ago and really dont want to go back. and its a shame that that is exactly where this forum is heading. as for me well...so long and thanks for all the fish!

Unfortunately, the world is full of different distinctions. I must say though, it is a shame that you have decided to leave due to a (in my mind anyway) trivial change.

They way I see it, is that the AC community is a discussion forum, nothing more, nothing less. By creating a usergroup of 'Mentors', we are simply identifying those members who have been recognised for their experience and above average knowledge of their niche for new comers.

I personally believe that as Mentors, we must be willing and happy to accept PMs and answer them to the best of our ability, as this is our responsibility as mentors. I would not, and do not expect every user to be happy about receiving potentially dozens of PMs from newcomers and oldies alike and having to answer them.

Mommy1, you will also find that a 'title' for performance and experience is unavoidable in todays society.

I'm sorry if I sound blunt here (I'm a very blunt and 'to-the-point' kind of person), you will not be promoted in your job unless you perform. It is just like here on the AC forums. You will not be a moderator unless you can prove yourself. You will not be a Mentor unless you can prove yourself. Don't forget though, whether you are promoted in your job, or given a title on a fish forum, all new positions come with greater responsibilities.

This new title, with no special powers I might add, is just something to recognise those who have contributed so much for their chosen niche on AC.

KingFisher
06-08-2009, 04:02 AM
Unfortunately, the world is full of different distinctions. I must say though, it is a shame that you have decided to leave due to a (in my mind anyway) trivial change.

They way I see it, is that the AC community is a discussion forum, nothing more, nothing less. By creating a usergroup of 'Mentors', we are simply identifying those members who have been recognised for their experience and above average knowledge of their niche for new comers.

I personally believe that as Mentors, we must be willing and happy to accept PMs and answer them to the best of our ability, as this is our responsibility as mentors. I would not, and do not expect every user to be happy about receiving potentially dozens of PMs from newcomers and oldies alike and having to answer them.

Mommy1, you will also find that a 'title' for performance and experience is unavoidable in todays society.

I'm sorry if I sound blunt here (I'm a very blunt and 'to-the-point' kind of person), you will not be promoted in your job unless you perform. It is just like here on the AC forums. You will not be a moderator unless you can prove yourself. You will not be a Mentor unless you can prove yourself. Don't forget though, whether you are promoted in your job, or given a title on a fish forum, all new positions come with greater responsibilities.

This new title, with no special powers I might add, is just something to recognise those who have contributed so much for their chosen niche on AC.

I agree and I don't really understand why the issue is causing so much controversy and hard feelings. I've been here long enough to know whose advice is usually the best, but for a new member I see how these distinctions may help save fish from dying horrible deaths or living in poor conditions. And after all, isn't that why we are all here?

Wild Turkey
06-08-2009, 04:03 AM
help save fish from dying horrible deaths or living in poor conditions. And after all, isn't that why we are all here?

yupthumbs2: to help hobbyists and fish alike

William
06-08-2009, 04:14 AM
I do not understand why people want to make this into A list or B list members, All members are A list here regardless of if you have a button. The AC helper shows that you help a lot, does that make you worth more than anyone else or popular in high school. No but it is still a quality that deserve to re recognized.

The mentor button show that you know a lot but those that make you better than other members or an A list member no!

All members here are a list members. By talking about the new user groups as a-list you but them on a pitestal they don't have and shouldn't have. They are members like anyone else.

The reason I gave them usergroups is simply because that is the only way to give them the buttons. But the buttons can be seen as awards if that feels better.

unleashed
06-08-2009, 05:03 AM
Just a quick suggestion.

Would it be possible to create a special page on the menu bar to help other users identify who the AC Mentors are with a brief description as to what the AC Mentors purpose is? This could also work for mods.

Gayle
06-08-2009, 05:07 AM
I still think there should be a sticky under each catagory with that info!! Maybe where other users who keep that type of fish/animal can add their names to create a list of Mentors as well as keepers.

Rue
06-08-2009, 05:08 AM
I suppose I'll firm up my opinion now, that this isn't a good idea. It didn't take long for feelings to get ruffled...

...and I'll leave it at that...

William
06-08-2009, 05:26 AM
No but feeling get ruffled like this every time we choose a mod. The only difference is that this time it is displayed in public instead of me having to deal with 25 people thinking the wrong choices was made in private and some consider leaving due to it. Sometimes people even get upset over other people recieving awards. I am not complaining. I am happy that they contact me to speak their mind. I just want to exemplify the fact that all decisions that involves members cause this level of emotion so it is to early to say what the effects of this will be.

And I am sorry to say. That if this saves even 1-2 fish it might be worth some ruffled emotions.

mac
06-08-2009, 06:23 AM
And I am sorry to say. That if this saves even 1-2 fish it might be worth some ruffled emotions.

Well spoken. Very true and I back it 100%. The fish come first. This is what the site is for fish, and then a forum.

So fish first. And if some people are very good at getting the info out and about, who show great fish keeping skills good on them. And they deserve recognition.

mac

Little Embers
06-08-2009, 07:45 AM
so it is to early to say what the effects of this will be.

And I am sorry to say. That if this saves even 1-2 fish it might be worth some ruffled emotions.
Some good members who go out of their way to help save those fish you talk about are or thinking about leaving the forum...so I think that is showing some effect already.

As for recognition..I am not against that at all and they deserve it...but look at how many awards/titles there already are...How many more are needed..there seems to be more focus put on awards/titles than on the fish.

I will be blunt and I don't know why I feel so strongly about this to be honest, but for me that TITLE just feels like a real "Put Down" of the other members IMHO whether it was intended or not...and I know it wasn't.

mac
06-08-2009, 08:01 AM
IMO all the other forums I am on that have titles, there is none of this decension. The people who have the title get it as a thank you for the hard work they do. Plus for new people to the forum, they know who has the best people to go to for advice.

Just the same is in the public. Some people get a title for the hard work they have done. And consequently people talk to them for advice.

As for these members wanting to leave. Well that their choice. And IMO it a very stupid choice. And IMO change is needed at times. And also recogniation to those who have done.

What really in a nut shell is wrong with this plan of Williams?????


mac

unleashed
06-08-2009, 08:08 AM
I have to say that this is really turning into a storm in a tea cup.

I, like mac, am also a member of several forums which have various roles similar to this. I do not know why here it has turned out quite controversial as it works well on other forums

Because of my new role as an AC Mentor, I will not partake in this discussion anymore as I believe that I have said what is needed to be said.

mac
06-08-2009, 08:15 AM
Good point Unleashed.

The plan works great on other forums. And in truth will work. Plus is so much easier for the new members.

Yes there is a lot of medals out there on this forum. But that is for every one. Bar for the staff awards.

But there is none that give great thanks to the members who do a lot. And to the members who have spent a lot of there time on this forum, making it a nice informative place. What is wrong with some thanks to them?

mac

Little Embers
06-08-2009, 08:31 AM
I have already stated why I do not like the idea, so I see no point in going over it again. Also please reread my posts, I NEVER said members should not be thanked for their efforts.

I am Sorry for ever bringing the damn thing up, I obviously do not know what I am talking about....

BTW you may as well take me off the June list for "Member of the Month", I'm sure I have done my dash with that one. :ssmile:

mac
06-08-2009, 08:37 AM
I have already stated why I do not like the idea, so I see no point in going over it again. Also please reread my posts, I NEVER said members should not be thanked for their efforts.

I am Sorry for ever bringing the damn thing up, I obviously do not know what I am talking about....

BTW you may as well take me off the June list for "Member of the Month", I'm sure I have done my dash with that one. :ssmile:

What silly ness.. I was talking on a whole to every one. Not one person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please re-read my post.

Okay because of change some poeple want to have a paddy, fit, spit the dummy as it were. What silly foolish spoit childish behaviour.

The owner of this site is doing the best he can for the forum. And so far everything he has done, has made this place better than ever. To the point IMO and IME the best forum in the world.

mac

Fishalicious
06-08-2009, 08:37 AM
I feel like I am back in the playground with little kids pouting their lips for not getting their way... sheesh what a controversy over a little banner title :hmm3grin2orange:

Why is it there are always certain folks who stomp their feet like little kids whenever someone get's an award/made mod/earns a title?

What in all seriousness is the big problem?

I don't see the badges (helpers/mentors/advisors or whatever it is going to be) making any difference to the forum in general or the advice given so the forum remains the same and doesn't change in any way - it is not dividing members in any way in my eyes...it is merely giving a few folks who have been here for a long time a little recognition for their help and their knowledge. Is that such a horrible thing to do?

Where on earth has the community spirit gone in this place? Be happy for those picked at the moment in the different categories....keep being a great member and before you know it you also can have a shiny new badge also :11:

Ok have stepped off my soapbox again :22:

mac
06-08-2009, 08:42 AM
You hit the nail on the head, Fishlilouse.

It is like a few toddlers spoiling it for the many.

As for the community spirit, were has that gone. It is here with members, but on a whole it has gone. Hence maybe a time for change? A new face for a change. In-stead of same ld same old.

mac

gm72
06-08-2009, 10:19 AM
I feel like I am back in the playground with little kids pouting their lips for not getting their way... sheesh what a controversy over a little banner title :hmm3grin2orange:

Why is it there are always certain folks who stomp their feet like little kids whenever someone get's an award/made mod/earns a title?

What in all seriousness is the big problem?

I don't see the badges (helpers/mentors/advisors or whatever it is going to be) making any difference to the forum in general or the advice given so the forum remains the same and doesn't change in any way - it is not dividing members in any way in my eyes...it is merely giving a few folks who have been here for a long time a little recognition for their help and their knowledge. Is that such a horrible thing to do?

Where on earth has the community spirit gone in this place? Be happy for those picked at the moment in the different categories....keep being a great member and before you know it you also can have a shiny new badge also

Amen.

Does anyone else have any valid discussion at this point instead of other nonsense?

Little Embers
06-08-2009, 10:35 AM
Only to say I apologise for any childish behaviour on my part.

BTW that was an attempt at a joke regarding the "Member of the Month" comment...sorry again!

gm72
06-08-2009, 10:41 AM
Closing the thread. Discussions and debates should continue in a positive manner and not devolve into ranting and raving about a whole lot of nothing.