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Gemini
10-03-2008, 02:55 AM
Well I have had two deaths in my cherry shrimp tank. Wed night came home to a female being eaten, last night came home to a male being eaten. I'm sick of them dying. Well I've only lost three but still I dont' know why they are dying. The tank parameters are 0/0/10 but I"m worrying my nitrate test might be out as I checked the african tank too and it said <10. This tank is due for a water change and has 15 fish. I would have expected closer to 20 nitrates. I changed water last night but I dont know what to do. Not knowing the problem is making me sad and angry. I thought I might have been starving them so I dropped a bit of shrimp pellet in on Wed night but then ooops another dead on Thurs.
Any ideas or suggestions on what the problem might be?
When I got them the guy who breeds them told me not to worry about dechlorniators and just put in water out of the tap. He even did it to the wine glass these guys were in to prove it to me. Should I be using dechlorinated water???

Red
10-03-2008, 03:07 AM
I would but thats just MO...

Sounguru
10-03-2008, 03:08 AM
Sorry the guy you got them from is an idiot..... I don't say that often but in this case it applies.

Yes the tap water must be dechlorinated.. but it is best to put the water in a bucket for 3 days and let it dechloinate naturally.

Shrimp are sensitive to Nitrates and other trace chemicals. So he maybe on a non dechlorinated water system or a well where you are not. So keep those nitrates down and dechlorinate that water...

Also is your house older and have copper pipes? that is another problem we can have here in the US.

What is the temp? and PH?

Holyvision
10-03-2008, 03:09 AM
I costs almost nothing to put a capfull of Prime in the tank...I would use de-chlorinated, it can't hurt...

Red
10-03-2008, 03:18 AM
I would do what sounguru said... I have one of those big big Waterjug things they use in football and fill that up with water and use it and i have a top off tank..

Gemini
10-03-2008, 03:18 AM
I'm not worried about the cost at all!! The cost of these shrimp in Aust makes any money spent on keeping them alive worth it!!!
***** stupid man!!!! Ok dumb question - if I fill a bucket with water, do I leave it inside or outside? How do I stop dust and stuff getting into it?
My house could have copper pipes..... It was built in the 70's I think. How could I find out? Will copper get out of the water if I leave it?
The temp sits at 24-26oC. The PH is 8 out of the tap and between 7.6 and 8 in the tank. The hardness is over 300ppm so I have a helluva time getting it lower.
I'm gonna cry - then go to the LFS and yell at him.

Red
10-03-2008, 03:19 AM
I use a plastic bag from the store and put it over the bucket... thats also how i dont spill water....

EDIT: wooo 2000 post!!

Sounguru
10-03-2008, 03:45 AM
When I had to age water or dechlorinate it I always just put a beach towel across the top of hte bucket that way there could still be gas exchanges.

PH looks good shrimp normally like hard water so should be okay there but Bill and the crew at Arizona Invertsa re the one to ask on that point.

If your local health or water dept does it ask for a test of the water coming out of your pipes I know here they do it for like $20US so you can find out what all is in your water. As far as the copper pipes look under the sink and see if you can see the pipes and if they are copper or not. You could also call and talk to an experienced builder in the area and ask if in the 70's if copper pipes were the norm.

As far as the guy saying that you shouldn't dechlorinate your water he should be canned or put out of business that is like saying I have played russian roulette a 1000 times so I will never have the gun go off on me.... I do not know a shrimp, fish, heck anyone with 2 cents worth of brains on aqauriums that would say oh you don't need to dechlorinate your water.

Oh if there is copper in the water no it will not just leave if you let it sit.... But that would be a last possible check. Copper pipes over time oxidize and that oxidazition actually coats the inside of the pipe so that no more copper leaks out. The time it becomes and issue is when the pipes are disturbed like in a remodel or a plumbing repair. I just had a friend wipe out 90 of his invert tanks because he did a remodel on the kitchen and exposed fresh copper to his water system. Needless to say he was none to happy.

Gemini
10-03-2008, 04:01 AM
Okay thanks everyone. I will fill a bucket when I get home and pop a beach towel over it for water changes. I can not believe I was soo stupid as to believe the man. But he even said I can't use dechlorinators because they will kill the shrimp. So I just went ok. I'll be aging water from now.
I haven't done any work on the pipes so fingers crossed it isn't a copper issue or anything. I'll check under the sink at what the pipes look like just to be safe.
I hope this saves my shrimpies!!

Sounguru
10-03-2008, 04:18 AM
Some declorinators can kill the shrimp too... Check on the Arizona Invert Forum as to which ones are safe or better yet just age it....

I personally don't use them but it would be good to know which ones are safe....

wijnands
10-03-2008, 03:31 PM
Let's see if I can add anything. First, copper pipes. These are normal in this country. Copper pipes that have been in use for a time will not give up enough copper to harm shrimp.

Secondly, dechlorinate water. I don't know how australian tap water. If it is chlorinated letting it sit will help. Ours has little chlorine in it but despite that I've always used tetra Aquasafe water conditioner.

Shrimp killers... tricky to diagnose. Testing water needs to be done but to be honest, a really bad nitrate or nitrite problem will harm all the shrimps very quickly. Could it have been old age? A lot of the shrimp species in the hobby don't reach 2 years. Was it perhaps a bad moulding? You do know that if they shed a skin that you shouldn't remove it?

Commodore 64
10-03-2008, 03:35 PM
Some declorinators can kill the shrimp too... Check on the Arizona Invert Forum as to which ones are safe or better yet just age it....

I personally don't use them but it would be good to know which ones are safe....

I've used prime for like 6 months on my cherry shrimp tank...

terrapin24h
10-03-2008, 04:44 PM
I have snails, but one day hope to have shrimp as well and i picked prime because(as near as i can tell) it's good for everything if not a wee bit stinky. I figured that would minimize my chances of heartache once i spring for the wee beasties. gl

--chris

Gemini
10-05-2008, 01:36 AM
ok well I'm in need of more conditioner anyway so off to see if I can get prime... fingers crossed!

johnpeezy
10-05-2008, 05:36 AM
I really doubt this is of any importance in this thread but I will throw it out there since its a popular food type.

HbH super soft Krill and spirlina pellets HAVE copper in them. Our store shrimp breeder pointed it out to me one day and he was a little torked. He was feeding his little guys that stuff for ever and basiclly said he was slowly poisiong them.

The man breeds like 10 or 15 diffrent kinds of shimp and seems to know what he talking about. Just thought I would mention it, look on the ingredients list yourself too, i did.

Gemini
10-06-2008, 05:07 AM
Okay well I couldn't find Prime so I got API stress coat. A few on the Arizona Invert Forum said they used that with no problems.
I think I do have copper pipes. But I was told the copper only leeches from the hot water so if I just use cold I should be ok.
I didn't know they would put copper in food - I'll read lists when I get home. Man I threw out the container for a few of them so I guess I'm off to the Hikari website now just to check whats in the sinking wafers.
Thank you all for the help. On a good note there have been no more cherry shrimp deaths since Thursday! :19:

Gemstone
10-06-2008, 06:25 AM
Glad for you that you sorted out the shrimps...I would not add dechlorinator...I would just do the water aging thing..and your shrimps should then be quite fine..

terrapin24h
10-07-2008, 02:44 PM
i wouldn't worry about stress coat, it's a popular product by a good company; api stuff is top notch. Letting the water sit is good too, but it will not remove everything. I could be wrong, but let's say some ammonia found it's way into your water. Even if you let it sit, the ammonia would still be there. I think you would have to let the water sit a long time(like a week??) for the amm to leave. Stuff like prime and stress coat neutralize alot more than just chlorine. If you don't see a "not safe for invertebrates/crustaceans" on the bottle it should be ok(careful with algaecides, lots of them are not safe for inverts)

--chris

Gemini
10-09-2008, 12:10 AM
Thanks for the input all. I have decided to treat a bucket of water with stress coat and then leave it for 48 hours with a towel over it just to make sure it's ok. That way I should be covering all bases. With any luck there will be no more deaths

Mvjnz
10-09-2008, 03:34 AM
You can easily get a copper test online for about $15, it works just like the liquid tests one usually uses...

But I have heard letting the water run for a bit first will get rid of any dissolved copper in the pipes. Not really ideal because of water restrictions, but if you do have copper pipes it might be a good idea.

Dazzle
10-09-2008, 02:22 PM
I hear letting the tap run for quite a while when you have copper pipes, I have copper pipes this is what i do
I also use Tetra aquasafe and this removes chlorine, choramine and heavy metals such as copper
My shrimp seem happy:c3: