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View Full Version : A little confused about some finrot stuff...



NoelFae
02-19-2017, 04:04 AM
Throwing out some word vomit here; so excuse me for that ahead of time.

Ive cycled Ares tank, removed my carbon filter media and have been using paraguard daily since I learned about Ares finrot a month ago. He's in a 5.5 with some different types of java fern.

Pics now-
When I got Ares he looked like this

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170219/f163b9b345d2a7f80ceda4d955d1e8cb.jpg

Then a few weeks later I noticed his fin rot and he looked like this

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170219/a0368a1a550edfca03778b4b4486d066.jpg

Like I said I've been treating with paraguard for about a month - for the first couple weeks I still had a carbon filter in - which when I found out dilutes the medicine, so I took it out and I've been treating without it for a little over 2 weeks now. Half a cap every 24 hrs.

Ares is showing no signs of stress; but his fins look worse than ever?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170219/351003623aeb4f895816ea9c07e04356.jpg

That's today - he's a flighty bugger so it's a little blurry...

But I'm wondering if he's getting worse; or if it's possible that the black edging of his fins was finrot and as he heals it's dying off and will grow back?

His tank is clean and cycled, and like I said, I put paraguard in every night.

I've been trying to convince myself that he's okay and this is part of the healing; but I'm just getting over worried, so I thought I'd ask..

madagascariensis
02-19-2017, 06:01 AM
what are your water parameters? and what what exactly about his find look worse to you? Personally I would look at whether the fin is regressing or growing out.

Shidohari
02-19-2017, 08:36 AM
What Madagascar said. I know that alot of people say that any medication in the tank changes water parameters and I believe that alot of people treating their tanks do a PWC for the tank every 36-60 hours of dosing. If I recall they do this to reduce any water param changes caused by so much dosing of medication.

The java Ferns are live plants correct? from the picture they look like the silk variety.

what are you feeding your betta could also be an issue as well please advise on current diet as poor nutrition can also contribute to changes in health.

What do you treat your water with for post PWC when you replace the water, and how much/how often do you do your water changes normally. I've always been told that in most cases anything smaller than a 10 gallon tank needs a PWC at least every 3-5 days depending on readings.

Do you have a heater for your tank? If so what temperature do you keep the tank at.

Sorry these are alot of technical questions. But it may help some of the others give you further advice on next steps.

Keep us posted and I totally know about the fin rot thing, Helios had a issue with that for a bit too.

Good Luck.

NoelFae
02-19-2017, 01:37 PM
I just finished cycling; because the uncycled tank is why I originally think he got fin rot; so I was doing a water change every night. I've got 8.2 ph, 0 ammonia and nitrite and 10-20 nitrate. I have very hard water where I live so that 8.2 is high but constant.

Yes the plants are live; in the first two pictures I had silk plants and just recently switched to live plants because of a huge nitrate spike from my tap water.

I feed him betta pellets; I don't know the brand because I threw the package out because it was stupid and I put them in a little plastic container. I feed him every other day, two pellets, once in the morning and once at night. Sometimes I give him a couple bloodworms but it's not every time. It's maybe once or twice a week.

I treat with prime when I do water changes and depending on where my test is sitting I'll treat just for what I'm changing or the whole tank amount.

His water is usually between 75-80 f.

This is my first fishie so I've never really dealt with finrot.

But a lot of the inner parts of his fins look healthy, and I think they are growing out - so it's just the ends where the black is look bad- so I'm wondering if the black edge to his fins when I originally got him was finrot he had before I bought him that just got worse?

My theory is that the black edges are falling off and look choppy because they aren't supposed to be there; and that all his fins will grow back red.
But I'm also an extreme worry wart so I worry about anything if it goes wrong.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170219/fe07ffb24f9e719c15b13788509463b9.jpg

AmazonJoe
02-19-2017, 01:54 PM
What heater do you have and do you have a float thermometer or digital? Its important to keep it closer to 80

Also next time you take some tanks measurements snap some pics of the color chart comparison.

Other then that what filtration do you have and the biomedia ?

NoelFae
02-19-2017, 03:53 PM
What heater do you have and do you have a float thermometer or digital? Its important to keep it closer to 80

Also next time you take some tanks measurements snap some pics of the color chart comparison.

Other then that what filtration do you have and the biomedia ?

It's a betta specific heater - and it is mostly at 80; it's usually only after I do a water change it lowers a bit and my thermometer floats

I have an AquaClear ac 20 with a sponge and two bags of biomax

angelcraze2
02-19-2017, 05:36 PM
If you've been using a med for 2 weeks without noticing any improvement, it's time to look into something else. But personally, I would be keeping Ares water really clean by changing out 50% of his water daily. I've personally seen a flip in finrot with water changes and salt alone within a week on a very sensitive type of fish. I'm just not sure if bettas can tolerate salt, (the java ferns can) so I'm not recommending salt for Ares, just lots of water changes.

When my fish had finrot, it looked a lot worse than Ares' fins. Her caudal (tail fin) was totally chewed off, and it looked like part of her body was infected. Her (tail fin) grew back completely within 2 weeks, I could tell it was growing back within a couple days. I took pics daily to compare. If you see any regrowth, that's the sign you're looking for.

Besides water changes, if there's a better medication for bettas, hopefully someone experienced with bettas can step in!

Also, beta fins tear really easily, so make sure there's nothing hard/sharp that Ares can catch his fins on. If you are battling nitrates from the tap, some floating plants like frogbit, water lettuce...would be a good plant to add. Floating plants used up nutrients from the water the fastest and spread like crazy. Your betta might appreciate the long roots hanging down as well!

NoelFae
02-19-2017, 06:35 PM
Ive been doing water changes everyday - I just finished cycling.

It's not that I'm not noticing improvement- the insides of his fins look better but the edges where there was a black line keep getting worse. So I'm just wondering if that black line is falling off because it was finrot from when I got him. There's white spots in between all the rips where it looks like regrowth

angelcraze2
02-19-2017, 07:32 PM
Ive been doing water changes everyday - I just finished cycling.

I appologise, I wasn't aware this is a new tank. If you have just finished cycling, that could be why you are not seeing much improvement. A fish won't be able to get better while the tank is cycling. The fin will regrow from the inside (where tail meets body) out to the ends. You'll see the red grow back first before the black ends if the black is part of its coloration.

Shidohari
02-19-2017, 08:30 PM
Also there's another consideration. Is your betta Bored? If so they may sometimes nip at their own tails. Sorta Looks like fin rot but not as serious. My Helios occasionally has a thing for that, but now that he's in my 20 gallon tall, I believe that's lessened. I know his tail has grown back from when I had to deal with the fin rot.

Good luck and keep us posted.

angelcraze2
02-19-2017, 08:44 PM
Sorta Looks like fin rot but not as serious.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I thought so too, but didn't want to suggest it. The pics make it difficult to compare, but it doesn't look look a serious case of finrot to me. But that's my opinion.

I think you'll see fast improvement now that your tank is cycled and you are providing the cleanest environments by continuing with your scheduled water changes.

For sure, pls keep us posted! If you think it's getting worse, post right away. I know it's not easy, but maybe try to get similar angles of pics to compare. It doesn't look like your betta is camera shy :)

NoelFae
02-19-2017, 08:47 PM
Also there's another consideration. Is your betta Bored?

How do I make him unbored if he's bored?

NoelFae
02-19-2017, 08:48 PM
It doesn't look like your betta is camera shy :)

He's not :) he's just a brat and doesn't stay still lol

Shidohari
02-19-2017, 08:57 PM
How do I make him unbored if he's bored?

With that small of a tank, I don't know what to suggest to add. More experienced members can assist. I had a little more room to play with now I have moved Helios to my 20 gallon tall.

angelcraze2
02-19-2017, 09:39 PM
I just finished cycling; because the uncycled tank is why I originally think he got fin rot; so I was doing a water change every night. I've got 8.2 ph, 0 ammonia and nitrite and 10-20 nitrate. I have very hard water where I live so that 8.2 is high but constant.
.......recently switched to live plants because of a huge nitrate spike from my tap.

I treat with prime when I do water changes and depending on where my test is sitting I'll treat just for what I'm changing or the whole tank amount.

His water is usually between 75-80 f.........

I have an AquaClear ac 20 with a sponge and two bags of biomax


Going back to this.....
I think I accidentally skipped over this.
Too distracted today :(

If you can make more room for Biomax by replacing the sponge with fine floss or Polyfill, that would provide more surface area for your beneficial bacteria to colonize. You get rid of that hard-to-clean bulky soonge, increase bio-filtration and replace with a thinner floss that catches more gunk and can just be completely replaced (if you want) once a week. I just rinse mine in tank water and keep it until it doesn't look clean again after rinsing. The stuff is cheap. I got a whole roll that's lasted me years with 10 tanks going. If it doesn't rinse clean enough, I replace it, and I soak up some water from rinsing the old floss in (just to get some BB on the new floss too)

Sounds like you're already doing the right thing, clean freah water. Keep up with the Prime dosing.

The nitrate spike does concern me though. How high was the tap reading?

Are you able to find plants easily? If you could get your hands on a floating plant like Frogbit or dwarf water lettuce, even anacharis, I think it would help with the nitrates in the tank.

But just how much nitrate are you adding in with each water change? Do you have another thread somewhere? Has anyone helped you with this?

NoelFae
02-19-2017, 09:45 PM
The nitrate spike concerns me though. How high was the tap reading?

Are you able to find plants easily? If you could get your hands on a floating plant like Frogbit or dwarf water lettuce, even anacharis, I think it would help with the nitrates in the tank.

But just how much nitrate are you adding in with each water change? Do you have another thread somewhere? Has anyone helped you with this?

My tap was reading 40ppm a few weeks ago; I did have another thread under cycling and that's where someone told me to buy plants, my tap is down to 10 though- I had people come in and test it because it's a health concern for us too when it's that high.

My tank is sitting between 10-20, The colours are so similar on the test idk which one it is.

angelcraze2
02-19-2017, 10:04 PM
My tap was reading 40ppm a few weeks ago; I did have another thread under cycling and that's where someone told me to buy plants, my tap is down to 10 though- I had people come in and test it because it's a health concern for us too when it's that high.

My tank is sitting between 10-20, The colours are so similar on the test idk which one it is.

Yikes! I missed the whole thing! 40ppm! That's insane! I hope things have been addressed, that is not healthy for you at all! Gonna try and find that thread.

But I guess the only point of WCs is to get rid of the gunk at the bottom and the nitrate. If you are putting it back, there's no point unless you could find water from somewhere else. If you get some more plants, it will actually reduce the nitrates in a week's time if they reproduce and grow enough.

To summerize, once or twice a week with more plants is fine for water changes in your position.

NoelFae
02-19-2017, 10:13 PM
Yikes! I missed the whole thing! 40ppm! That's insane! I hope things have been addressed, that is not healthy for you at all! Gonna try and find that thread.

But I guess the only point of WCs is to get rid of the gunk at the bottom and the nitrate. If you are putting it back, there's no point unless you could find water from somewhere else. If you get some more plants, it will actually reduce the nitrates in a week's time if they reproduce and grow enough.

To summerize, once or twice a week with more plants is fine for water changes in your position.

Uhhhh it's under the cycling thread and I think I just called it cycling questions or something; but my Nitrates are down in both my tank and my tap - I raised shit with the city about it

NoelFae
02-19-2017, 10:14 PM
I lied it's just called Help

angelcraze2
02-20-2017, 12:53 AM
Ok good for you! Glad the nitrate thing is better :)

I stand with what I already wrote already and others suggested, to get more plants (hopefully the floating kind) and just do your WCs once a week. Don't be intimidated by simple plants. Just start with one type that grows very quickly. The closer your plants are to the light, the better to grow, so floating plants will be perfect :)

Other fast growing plants that don't need to be planted off the top of my head:
Wisteria
Anacharis (elodea densa)
Water sprite
Guppy grass (naja)

NoelFae
02-20-2017, 02:00 AM
Someone asked to see my test so here it is;
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/566a13018b23ebf38484f61219e316aa.jpg