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Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 06:26 PM
Having trouble keeping cherry shrimp. I have 2 shrimp tanks, cherries in one and snowballs in the other. Ill start with the cherry tank. 20gal long set up as a shrimp tank. Fluval Stratum substrate, 2 sponge filters and a AC 30 with sponge on intake. Live plants, driftwood and a moss ball. I always lose a few when I add them. Also every time I do a water change I lose one the next day. Water parameters as of yesterday ph-6.4,kh-2,gh-10. Didn't check nitrate, was in a hurry-not a good excuse.

second tank also set up as shrimp tank. 20 gal with fluorite substrate, live plants 2 pc of spiderwood and moss ball. parameters ph-6,kh-1,gh-9, nitrate is between 40-80.

I use prime and stability with each water change.

I have tested my tap water everything was in acceptable ranges. I had one of my lfs test my tank water and it was fine.

Does anything jump out? Its getting expensive just to have them die.

Boundava
02-09-2017, 06:31 PM
What is the pH out of your tap?

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 06:39 PM
7.6 with reg test, 7.4 with high range test.

Slaphppy7
02-09-2017, 06:42 PM
You need to be testing ammonia, nitrItes, and nitrAtes, those are the ones that can cause trouble.

Boundava
02-09-2017, 06:47 PM
When you do a water change how much water do you remove? My guess is the pH is fluctuating and this will stress some of the weaker shrimp out resulting in death.

When you add new shrimp to the tanks do you acclimate them or just drain the water they are in and drop them in your tank?

I have two 5.5 gallon shrimp tanks and I do a water change of 2 gallons on each tank about once a week and half. When I replace the water I use 1/2 gallon of distilled water and 1.5 gallons of tap water because my tanks are about pH 6.6 and my tap is pH 7.6-7.8.

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 06:54 PM
ammonia and nitrite has always been 0, nitrate would vary. I will test them.

I only change between1-2 gal. per my lfs recommendation. Monthly

Brhino
02-09-2017, 07:00 PM
nitrate is between 40-80.

That's a problem.


I only change between1-2 gal. per my lfs recommendation. Monthly

And that's the reason for the problem. Very high nitrates due to very low water change schedule. With enough plants to consume the nitrates you might get away with it, but given you're reading between 40-80, I can easily see why your shrimp are dying.

Like Boundava, I'm a little concerned about what will happen if you do a big water change with your pH 7.6 tap. Maybe it would be best to start doing small water changes every couple days until the pH in your tank is closer to your tap, then do larger changes to reduce nitrate.

Boundava
02-09-2017, 07:15 PM
I agree, too little water changes, too much nitrates.

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 07:25 PM
Cherry tank-
ammonia -0
nitrite- 0
nitrate-160

Snowball tank
ammonia -0
nitrite-0
nitrate -40-80

Slaphppy7
02-09-2017, 07:27 PM
Those trAtes are way too high, as suggested above.

WC's should be done now, large ones.

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 07:37 PM
I pick ed up about 100 cherries at an auction last fall. I expected a few to die but I would find 4 or 5 every day so I started doing small water changes every week. Didn't stop the die off. There are 4 left. I also put in 2 yellow then 4 more a week later. I topped off the tank,1-1 1/2 gal and next day a dead yellow 2nd day another died.

I don't get why the nitrates are so high. 3 filters, large-for this tank-sword, java fern,1 anubas, 4 cryts, moss on driftwood. 8 shrimp and 2 ottos.
I'm running sponge bio and purigen in then AC filter. I only feed 2 times a week either a small pinch of shrimp cuisine or a small piece of an alge wafer.

Boundava
02-09-2017, 07:38 PM
If you do a large water change watch the pH. Try the distilled water, see what the pH is when you mix a gallon of distilled to 1,2,3 gallons of tap. You can do this on a smaller scale by mixing a cup of distilled to 1,2,3 cups of tap water and see what comes closest to what you have in the tank right now. The other thing would be the dissolved solids in the water (magnesium and calcium), if this changes too much with the addition of too much distilled water then you will have issues with the shrimp unless you are able to add these back with something like Seachem Equilibrium (if you have plants) or Replenish.

Slaphppy7
02-09-2017, 07:39 PM
Test your tap for trAtes yet?

RiversGirl
02-09-2017, 07:39 PM
In thinking about how to get your nitrates down quickly, without swinging your pH too fast: I think I would start doing daily -- possibly twice daily -- small water changes. I'm thinking one gallon, because hopefully a half percent volume would not change the pH too fast.

If it were me in charge of these tanks, I'd do 2 wc's around 12 hours apart and watch closely after the second one, test the pH. If there is not trouble with a swing, then I'd keep to that schedule -- one gallon changed, every 12 hours or so -- daily for a couple of weeks. Then see what your parameters look like to determine if this schedule could ease off a bit.

Best wishes for you and your shrimp.

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 07:42 PM
could I just use PH down to my tap water to match tank water before adding?

RiversGirl
02-09-2017, 07:43 PM
Are you purposefully adjusting your pH for your tanks? That could be causing issue as well.

RiversGirl
02-09-2017, 07:45 PM
If you do a large water change watch the pH. Try the distilled water see what the pH is mixed a gallon of distilled to 1,2,3 gallons of tap. You can do this on a smaller scale bu mixing a cup of distilled to 1,2,3 cups of tap water and see what comes closest to what you have in the tank right now. The other thing would be the dissolved solids in the water (magnesium and calcium), if this changes too much with the addition of too much distilled water then you will have issues with the shrimp unless you are able to add these back with something like Seachem Equilibrium (if you have plants) or Replenish.

Mixing with distilled is a good idea -- trying to match your established pH.

Boundava
02-09-2017, 07:54 PM
You know that neocaridina would do fine in the pH that comes out of your tap? Adding things like pH up/down can be dangerous depending on the buffering capability of your tank's water. It is usually better to use the pH as is from the tap.

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 07:55 PM
adjusting ph of tap water to match tank water before adding it to avoid any ph swing.

tap water nitrates are 5

Boundava
02-09-2017, 08:03 PM
That's ok, you want nitrates under 20 ppm for tanks, 40-160 ppm is too high

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 08:08 PM
Thanks for the replies. I still cant figure out the high nitrates, there is like no bio load. Plants are all healthy,nothing rotting.

Slaphppy7
02-09-2017, 08:21 PM
Shrimp are scavengers, and they never stop eating..and pooping...they create a bigger bioload than one may realize

Boundava
02-09-2017, 08:28 PM
What types of filters do you have on the tanks, what is the media and how often do you clean it? You would be surprised how much debris can settle in a filter and add to nitrAtes too. Sponges in filters are notorious for housing nitrAte increasing debris, as is your substrate if you don't do a good substrate cleaning-which I don't think you can having such a small water change over sch a long period of time.

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 08:36 PM
I have 2 sponge filters which I rinse monthly and an AC 30 with the stock sponge bio and a Purigen pouch. Cleaned monthly. I do vacuum but as pointed out you cant cover much area with smaller changes. I usually vacuum the area I feed them.

Boundava
02-09-2017, 09:29 PM
Do you have problems with the flow in your sponge filters? Have you noticed deaths around the time you clean your filters? Sorry I know the nitrAtes are very high, but this may be a contributing factor too-if shrimp are dying only occasionally once established. You may be washing too many BB away cleaning the sponge filters, and this causes a mini-cycle which hits the stressed (from high nitrAtes) shrimp out and causes death.

From my understanding, your sponge filters only need to be cleaned once they start to reduce flow. I have had my filters running since December, and haven't cleaned them yet. Matter of fact the shrimp do a good job cleaning them off for me. The fact that sponge filters are so maintenance free is why I want to move to almost 90% sponge filtration in the relatively near future for my tanks. Not to say I won't have supplemental filtration for some heavier stocked tanks in the form of a HOB or canister.

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 09:42 PM
They are rinsed out in tank water not tap. I should have said that ,my bad. Due to my past deaths with water changes I only changed 1/2 gal in both tanks. Probably do the same tomorrow then go from there.

RiversGirl
02-09-2017, 09:42 PM
If they are being rinsed monthly -- assuming NOT in tap water -- I'm wondering how this would kill BB and cause a mini cycle.
Just rinsing -- swishing and squeezing them out a few times -- in old tank water shouldn't cause troubles. (What am I missing?)

I would guess with a bunch of plants, the sponge filter would have to be cleared of plant bits, periodically.

Boundava
02-09-2017, 09:45 PM
You can loose some BB rinsing and swishing. I have done it before a long long time ago with a betta.

The 5.5 tanks have buce in it and I don't get plant bits in it, its too fine a sponge and the suction isn't like a filter to pull them in. Even the sponge on my 20L doesn't get plant bits in and it has a much bigger air pump, and it has been up for slightly over a year now with never a rinse and a bunch of plants and lots of fish in the tank.

RiversGirl
02-09-2017, 09:46 PM
Due to my past deaths with water changes I only changed 1/2 gal in both tanks. Probably do the same tomorrow then go from there.

Hopefully you might consider doing this daily until those nitrates come down.

RiversGirl
02-09-2017, 09:48 PM
You can loose some BB rinsing and swishing. I have done it before a long long time ago with a betta.

This is good to know! I had no idea that would occur, if swished in old tank water.
I'm learning something new, every single day.

Steelerfan
02-09-2017, 10:19 PM
I do plan on continuing the water change. If all goes well with the 1/2 gal then ill up to 1 gal.

I never thought it was a mini cycle, I was more focused on kh or gh as being the problem.

Steelerfan
02-10-2017, 09:42 PM
I have done 2 1/2 gal changes. So far all looks good. No dead shrimp.

Thanks again for the advice.

Slaphppy7
02-10-2017, 09:46 PM
Glad to hear things are heading in the right direction.

Steelerfan
02-10-2017, 09:52 PM
I really think I was chasing the wrong parameter. Lost track of the nitrates and PH.

Steelerfan
02-22-2017, 11:58 PM
well all has been well. I havnt lost any shrimp with water changes. I added 4 more shrimp to one of my tanks with no loss. Thanks for the advice.

Slaphppy7
02-23-2017, 12:10 AM
Good to hear, thanks for the update.

Boundava
02-23-2017, 12:27 AM
Agree, that's great news.thumbs2: