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  1. #11

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    When I look at a fish like that, I don't say "aww how cute", but rather I say "aww poor fishie". I really don't know why people like those. Or the ones with the eyes sticking out of their heads.
    Member of the Greater Seattle Aquarium Society

  2. #12

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    0 Not allowed!
    "That's a Huge............Fish!!!!"

    This is the Toxic Avenger for those who don't know. I see a striking resemblance.
    Last edited by jeffs99dime; 09-28-2012 at 09:48 PM.

  3. #13

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeonflame
    I agree about some dog breeds. Not to detract from the thread but show breeding has created some very unnecessary and severe deformities in dogs that are now accepted as standard.
    I totally agree! And if you think that's obscene, you should see what they've done to cats!
    20 gal. high: planted; 7 white cloud minnows, several RCS, 2 blue shrimp, 5 Amano shrimp, several snails; Azoo air. 65 gal: planted; 6 rosy barbs, 6 yellow glofish, 3 red glofish, 3 zebra danios, 5 white cloud minnows, 3 dojo loaches, 6 crimson spot rainbow fish, 12 large Amano Shrimp, several snails; AC110.

  4. #14

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    ... What have they done to cats? Cat breeds and relatively normal compared to the severely mutated fish species and dog breeds. Many English Bulldogs can't even give birth naturally anymore because the head is too large for the birth canal.

    All I can think of are Spynx, American Curls, Scottish Folds and Manx or Bobtail cats and even then they aren't really that seriously deformed. The Persians and similar species with the squished faces are pretty bad but no worse than all the dog breeds which suffer the same awful breeding. I suppose the Rex breeds also fall under the same categories (Devon Rex, Cornish Rex, Selkirk Rex, etc.) But I've had 2 Devon Rexes and they are the best cats, so much personality.

  5. #15

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    Let's try to keep in mind the Asian aesthetic that is the origin of these goldfish breeds. Lionheads are meant to resemble "Fu dogs", and thus need to be large, full-bodied fish with a mane of some kind, hence the wen and missing a dorsal fin.





    Ranchus take their style from Sumo, as they are meant to be large. They are the kings of goldfish. Red capped orandas are attractive to the Japanese due to the contrast betweem red and white. A notable example of this aesthetic is the geisha with the white face and red lips. (And their National flag)




    Another thing to consider is that many of these breeds are not intended to be seen from the side. Asian bred goldfish are to be kept in ponds, not clear side-view aquariums. This is not just limited to top-view ranchus, since centuries of Chinese, and Japanese art displays goldfish almost exclusively from the top.




    Continued...
    I groom ranchus. That is all.

  6. #16

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    Tosakins are another example of an extreme breed. From the side it looks like an oddly shaped goldfish and nothing more.




    However, when seen from above, the curved and curled double tail illustrates clearly the goals of this extreme care and breeding. These fish are raised in large round bowls with little water current. The lack of filtration requires extreme care to keep the toxins from rising.



    The tosakin was created out of Ryukin stock. You could argue that the ryukin isn't really that sought after, but is rather a stepping stone to a tosakin that some Japanese fell in love with for their unique shape.

    I hope I've provided a different point of view on goldfish breeds.
    I groom ranchus. That is all.

  7. #17

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ameliaaahx
    ... What have they done to cats? Cat breeds and relatively normal compared to the severely mutated fish species and dog breeds. Many English Bulldogs can't even give birth naturally anymore because the head is too large for the birth canal.

    All I can think of are Spynx, American Curls, Scottish Folds and Manx or Bobtail cats and even then they aren't really that seriously deformed. The Persians and similar species with the squished faces are pretty bad but no worse than all the dog breeds which suffer the same awful breeding. I suppose the Rex breeds also fall under the same categories (Devon Rex, Cornish Rex, Selkirk Rex, etc.) But I've had 2 Devon Rexes and they are the best cats, so much personality.
    A cat's tail is part of its spinal column. That's why we must be very careful with our pet cats to NOT pull their tails too hard -- we really could cause them physical damage.

    Cats that are bred without tails, or with small stumps of tails have been known to experience back problems or problems with their hind legs and some these spine-related health conditions can cripple them and cause them to really suffer.

    When I got my cat with the deformed hind legs, the first thing the veterinarian asked me over the phone was "does he have a tail?" Mine does, and in his case, it wasn't fancy breeding that resulted in the deformity, but a problem that had developed inside his mother's womb. But it's noteworthy that the vet, having not yet seen him but hearing of the bent-backwards rear legs, immediately asked about the presence of a tail. They see a lot of tailess cats that were deliberately bred that way, and some are just fine, but others aren't.

    Cats with smashed in faces often have noses so flat as to interfere with their breathing. They also often have sinus problems.

    It may not be well known, but even though these fancier cats are often quite pampered and well cared for, they still don't live as long as cats whose features are normal. I once read that the average lifespan for a flat-nosed Persian is about eight years. By contrast, a well cared for plain-old-Joe housecat with no fancy breeding can be twelve, fifteen or sometimes even twenty years. Why? Because its crucial anatomical features are normal and untampered with, and hence are able to function as nature intended.

    True, they haven't gone as extreme with cats as with dogs, in that most breeds of cats are within the same general size range. The sizes of domestic cats aren't all over the map as with dogs.

    Still, if you were a cat, would you really enjoy being hairless on a cold winter day?

    How do curled ears affect a cat's hearing? The ears of a cat are shaped the way they are for a reason. To catch and transmit sound in a certain way. If the shape of the ears is deformed, they aren't going to function as normal cat ears would.

    I do think it's obscene because these animals suffer. Not only do they suffer, their lives are often cut short. And it really isn't necessary, at all. Fancy cat breeding is done for the entertainment and aesthetic pleasures of humans, NOT for the well-being of the cats. Its done for the purposes of competition, and the accompanying ego-boost their owners get from winning a ribbon or trophy. The cats are so many points in a contest, and what is considered "pleasing" is really quite bizarre in some cases.

    Even sadder, those offspring who don't make the cut -- whose features aren't considered show quality -- are culled out of the litter and the dirty industry secret is they are often destroyed. These same cats would make wonderful pets if given good homes. The lucky ones are put up for adoption. Not all of them are that fortunate.

    -- mermaid
    20 gal. high: planted; 7 white cloud minnows, several RCS, 2 blue shrimp, 5 Amano shrimp, several snails; Azoo air. 65 gal: planted; 6 rosy barbs, 6 yellow glofish, 3 red glofish, 3 zebra danios, 5 white cloud minnows, 3 dojo loaches, 6 crimson spot rainbow fish, 12 large Amano Shrimp, several snails; AC110.

  8. #18

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    No Thanks

  9. #19

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    0 Not allowed!
    That is one mutant fish. I'm with the purists...be it a dog, or a fish, I prefer something bred for health and vitality...not looks. Give me a standard goldfish (that looks more like a like a wild carp rather than a football) or a mongrel, Heinz 57 pooch any day

  10. #20

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    0 Not allowed!
    With the exception of genetic engineering, it is nearly impossible to select a single trait or gene to be modified. While attempting to make a goldfish look more natural (or cat or dog) you will, inevitably, have an impact on behaviour.

    Well known and documented example is breeding foxes for their fur. An attempt to breed them for friendliness (to make them less stressed in an enclosure with other foxes, and to make them easier to care for) had the unintended, and undesired effect of changing their tails, ears and fur colour.

    You may want your goldfish to live longer, or look more like a carp, but keeping a carp in aquaria is near impossible. They are not bred to be in enclosed spaces. Breeding them to not be overly stressed and breed in a fish tank has the side-effect of making them change colour, become rounder, etc.

    Likewise, breeding a cat to have an ideal body shape and physical fitness would result in a feral or outdoor cat, unhappy and unwilling to to locked in a house for its entire life. This is not to defend the extremes that fancy breeders go to, however the polar opposite is equally untenable.

    Another thing to consider is that many extreme fancy goldfish are not the result of breeding, but of grooming. Groomers feed their fish high concentrations of high protein feed. This is like feeding a child 20 cheeseburgers a day, and blaming his odd round shape on his genes.
    I groom ranchus. That is all.

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