suddenly sick angel

[fishmommie]

Ich is one of those parasites which are commonly introduced into the tank via new fish or water from another tank. This is why even a QT for a new tank system is very effective. Stress of moving, differences between water parms in your tank and the LFS tank, etc can weaken a fish's immune system and allow the ich parasite to take hold. The Angel's death is no surprise...most LFS stock come from farmed fish which are IME prone to disease and simply just genetically weak. This is from generations of inbreeding, keeping the fish constantly medicated, and various growth/color inducing hormones given to the fish to boost quick sales. I would also watch your EBJD they are notoriously difficult to get to survive, very few make it to adulthood.
Thanks for weighing in MCHRKiller - I really appreciate it even though this is tough to read. I guess I more or less saw my freshly cycled 90 as a QT because all fish came from the same indy shop, all fish had been in stock for at least a month and all appeared to be very healthy. I was hopeful that a drip acclimation - which I did for a little over an hour - would solve any stress issues due to the differential in the PH levels. The LFS runs 8. My water in the tank is 7.6 Clearly, I was wrong.

I'm very worried, still, for my EBJD. He was the first to show symptoms of ich. One day, he looks good, swims freely, fins are flying. Another, he hides, or darts or tucks in his dorsel. One day he eats. The next day he doesn't. Clearly, he's still in jeopardy - at least more so than the others who appear to be handling the high temps well. Should I attempt to QT him or would another change in water chemistry only make things worse? Any advice appreciated.

Keeping the temp at 85*F for 10-14 days is acceptable, I do hope you have increased surface agitation even more. 90Gs are tall tanks and are more difficult to properly oxygenate...temperature de-pleats oxygen. The fish being in a weakened state and under the exposure of some hard core medication require more oxygen...it wouldn't hurt to open the top of the tank some or add an extra airpump.
I've been running an air pump full blast all this time + lowered the water level and the spray bar is hitting the water at a pretty good clip. I just received an additional air pump in the mail yesterday, had thought about adding it and absolutely will now. I also just opened the tank top until I can get the air pump installed tomorrow.

You should also be doing daily WCs of 20-30% when using any medication. Next time keep some AquariSol on hand...it is a very versatile medication which is also fairly safe to use on even weak fish. This is because the copper in AquariSol is chelated...it is less toxic than most treatments.
I HOPE there is no next time but I'll absolutely find the product and get some on hand asap. For now, I've been doing 2 X daily W/C of 20% each to get the carbon out. It's still running between .5 and 1 so will do another change tomorrow.

Another thing to consider is your aquarium's alkalinity. A tank with a low alkalinity will have much more adverse reactions to the exposure of copper than a tank with higher alkalinity levels. This is because low alkalinity yields the copper more toxic.

I will confess, I am not well versed on alkalinity issues. I test the PH and it's running about 7.2 - 7.6 Are there other test kits I should have on hand - which leads to the next question ... what do I do about it? WHEN I get this problem solved, I very much want to attempt another angel but I don't want to have the same thing happen to him it as this one.

Thank you again and again, if you have any suggestions for the EBJD, I'm completely open.

[MCHRKiller]

EBJDs are notoriously difficult fish to keep, its why you commonly see babies for sale at a fairly decent price but larger ones 4"+ go for quite the chunk of change. Very few make it to adulthood, many are plagued with problems, and others randomly just drop dead. There isn't much I can offer you on their care other than keep conditions pristine and feed an excellent diet, adding some food soaks into your regimen wouldnt hurt. Selcon has turned a number of fish around for me, it also boosts appetite.

Hardness/Alkalinity is something you should occasionally test for...in general FW fish keeping terms its nothing to worry about. And honestly if you weren't using copper based medications...you would probably never have to worry about it keeping domestic FW fish.

Some medications you should always have on hand IMO/IME: Aquari-Sol, Metro+, Prazi-Pro, Pima Fix, Mela Fix. This will cover the base for most ailments...and all of these medications are relatively safe. Disease happens, you will encounter a wide array of disease if you plan to stay in the hobby for any length of time. Disease however should primarily only come from newly acquired fish of course.

Keep in mind that a temp of 85*F is stressful in itself...it is a better of two evils. The temperature kills Ich but it also stresses your fish. For now leave things alone, add the new airpump, keep that top cracked open, and keep up with the WCs. Really this is all you can do and probably your best course of action.

In the future....QT all new fish, and treat them for internal parasites(Metro+ and Prazi) while monitoring for external parasites. This is especially true of domestic/farmed Angels...they always seem to have a gutload of bugs

Best of luck, and keep up the good work so far.....

[fishmommie]

[QUOTE=MCHRKiller]EBJDs are notoriously difficult fish to keep, its why you commonly see babies for sale at a fairly decent price but larger ones 4"+ go for quite the chunk of change. Very few make it to adulthood, many are plagued with problems, and others randomly just drop dead. There isn't much I can offer you on their care other than keep conditions pristine and feed an excellent diet, adding some food soaks into your regimen wouldnt hurt. Selcon has turned a number of fish around for me, it also boosts appetite.
Pristine I can and do. I feed a mix of high protein flakes, frozen brine shrimp, sinking and floating cichlid pellets and sinking veggie wafers. What is a food soak? sorry. I have not heard that term before

Some medications you should always have on hand IMO/IME: Aquari-Sol, Metro+, Prazi-Pro, Pima Fix, Mela Fix. This will cover the base for most ailments...and all of these medications are relatively safe. Disease happens, you will encounter a wide array of disease if you plan to stay in the hobby for any length of time. Disease however should primarily only come from newly acquired fish of course.
have the melafix. will order the others from F&S asap. I keep very clean tanks with weekly W/C. 44

Keep in mind that a temp of 85*F is stressful in itself...it is a better of two evils. The temperature kills Ich but it also stresses your fish. For now leave things alone, add the new airpump, keep that top cracked open, and keep up with the WCs. Really this is all you can do and probably your best course of action. will do. thanks

In the future....QT all new fish, and treat them for internal parasites(Metro+ and Prazi) while monitoring for external parasites. This is especially true of domestic/farmed Angels...they always seem to have a gutload of bugs
I do have a QT and always QT when adding fish to my 30 gal which is now fully stocked. Never dreamed that adding all new fish to the same new tank would require a QT. Still not certain how I could manage that ... but, I won't have to worry about it again. The 5, the 30, and the 90 are my limit.

BTW - One final quick question: I could set up a 5 gal QT next week (have an extra seeded filter running on my 5 just for a QT) Would it be too early to get another angel and QT it with doses of Metro and Prazi in prep for when my 90 is completely recovered? And if so, any other precautions I should take? Or am I just asking for heartbreak and will most likely lose another one?

thanks

[MCHRKiller]

5G is a bit small unless the other angelfish is also quite small. I mean you can do it but I feel it would be best to wait until your 90G has been going well for a month before thinking about adding anything else.

Food soaks are just as the name implies...you soak the fish food in it and it delivers extra vitamins and minerals to the fish. Selcon adds extra vitamin C and omega 3s...very beneficial in cichlid keeping especially.

[fishmommie]

5G is a bit small unless the other angelfish is also quite small. I mean you can do it but I feel it would be best to wait until your 90G has been going well for a month before thinking about adding anything else.

Food soaks are just as the name implies...you soak the fish food in it and it delivers extra vitamins and minerals to the fish. Selcon adds extra vitamin C and omega 3s...very beneficial in cichlid keeping especially.

Got it. I'll wait. the tank just looks so empty without that angel - of course if the BPs and the Sev and the Pleco and the Geo AND the EBJD ever quit hiding from me, it might actually look like there are some fish in there instead of just a big piece of driftwood and some rocks.

Decided to get the other bubbler going before I go to bed. The kitchen tongs holding it to the bottom and the cord sticking over the front of the tank aren't exactly hi tech or decorative but they'll work for tonight/

thanks again

[fishmommie]

We apparently had a good night. no casualties this morning. The extra bubbler I added last night and cracking the lid a tad may have helped. Thanks again MCHRKiller for that suggestion. Sounds like a fish store in my office there is so much water agitation and bubbling going on LOL. They all ate like they hadn't had a meal in months - LOVE seeing that. Even the EBJD ate like a little pig and is swimming around like a happy fish instead of a confused and sick fish.The only mystery remains the emperor pleco. He doesn't come out much. I have to assume he's eating brown algae for sustenance or is sneaking out in the night and eating the wafers I drop for him. someone's eating them because they are always gone.
Will do another 25% W/C today and keep on keeping on. Now on day 6 of 85F temp --- hoping 4 more days will do it.

I won't post about the ich issues on this thread again since it was originally about my angel and he's gone. Will add further comment in my 90 gal journal (link in my signature line)
thanks again to everyone who helped and expressed concern.