New Mbuna Tank

[Lady10Godiva]

This might seem like a silly question, but I read that you shoukdnt keep red zebras with yellow labs because they can cross breed....does that apply to all zebras? I was looking at a cobalt blue or a white snow flake zebra. I would think the white snow flake zebra, yellow tailed acei, and yellow labs would look nice together. It leaves out all the big meanies like the auratus, bumblebee, and johanni and still has a good mix of color.

Would that combo be compatible or not? I keep looking at mbuna lists and get confused when different places lists the same common names with different latin names.

[IanR29]

Yes it's true that Yellow Labs and Red Zebras like to cross breed. I didn't think about that. I actually believe I was sold one from the lfs and is kind of irritated about that. Basically you don't want species to look alike for that purpose.

[junkers12]

That is interesting I was under the impression that yellow labs only breed with yellow labs. I guess I was wrong. But that is probably true because I went to look at my baby yellows more closely and they have a hint of bars going up vertically. I will have to post a photo because some of the babies are from a different mother and don't have the same bars.

[kaybee]

...I read that you shoukdnt keep red zebras with yellow labs because they can cross breed....does that apply to all zebras?

Because the cichlids of lake malawi are genetically closely related, theoretically, this could apply to all mbuna's meaning: all mbuna species are potentially capable of interbreeding and producing viable, fertile and hybrid progeny with any other species, which means that a cobalt blue zebra could also cross with yellow lab.

However, mbuna's are instinctively 'wired' to procreate with their own species which is the typical outcome when multiple species in the same tank are kept in proper gender ratio's. I've kept groups of yellow labs and red zebra's together for years and they've never crossbred or shown any inkling of doing so.

When opposite genders are lacking they (mbuna's in general) will be receptive to breed with any willing partner of any species in the same tank if conditions are right. One of those conditions, I believe, is that the male must be ranked high in the tank's dominance hiearchy, for example an aggressive red zebra male wouldn't permit a sub-dominant male yellow lab to court a red zebra female. Conversely, a red zebra with dominance over the male yellow lab may win breeding rights with female yellow labs if female red zebra's are absent in the aquarium).

Keeping similar-looking mbuna's or even mbuna's belonging to the same genus in the same tank is said to increase the odds of hybridization occurring. For example, keeping a male melanochromis interruptus in a tank with female melanochromis johanni's is probably just asking for hybridization to occur (though in my opinion red zebra's and yellow labs aren't even similar to each other).

Now with all of that said, , the odds of hybridization significantly increases if any of the fish involved are of hybrid lineage. A mbuna that looks like a yellow lab but is actually a 75% yellow lab/25% red zebra hybrid, it might be inclined to engage the opposite gender of any of those species regardless of what gender ratio's are in place.

[escamosa]

A hint of bars on the sides of Lab fry is quite common. Nearly all of mine showed some hint of bars at some stage of their lives. It can be a genetic thing sometimes, and it can also be a stress related thing at times too. Most of mine showed the bars very early in their lives, but once they grew to an inch or so long, the bars faded away, occasionally coming back when they all started to test each other out, to see who was going to be the boss for a while. Some adults will show no sign of bars for a long time, then all of a sudden BAM, there's bars and also bearding. The first large male that I had used to get a big black beard, but no bars when he was working on claiming the tank for his own.

Some people will say that a Yellow Lab that shows these bars and bearding is low quality, but that's only because a lot of people expect their Labs to be that perfect, bright yellow. Little do they know, that Labs that show those bars, are as close to their original, natural colours as they can get.

And as for the Labs and the Zebras cross breeding, I don't think that it's a common occurrence, unless the numbers of the two different species isn't sorted out properly. For example; If you have one male Red Zebra and one female Lab, then there could be some cross breeding. Another example could be, if you have plenty of female Labs, and not enough female Zebras to keep the male Zebras interested in their own species.

And kaybee beat me to it! :)

[Lady10Godiva]

I am still waiting on my second filter to show up and I found the fluval 405 doesnt fit in my cabinet....it is too tall. So as long as the aquaclear 70 fits on the back I am going to start out with that and an eheim ecco 60 and then up the canister size when the fish get a little bigger in a few months.

Has anyone had good luck with petsmart mbunas? It looks like we wont be ordering them but picking them up from a couple different stores...and petsmarts price on the yellow labs is the best I can get instore at 8.50 instead of 12 at the other store. The best price on mbunas in my area is mixed mbunas for $4 each......but I dont know if I can pick the right ones.

[Northerly]

An AC 70 requires about 4.5 inches of spaces between tank and wall. If you're forced to get your mbuna from petsmart i'd advise you NOT to go with the mixed mbuna. Choose from the named species, and always consider other options besides petsmart. Im not saying the fish will definitely die or be unhealthy from petsmart, i just dont approve of the way they treat their fish.

[Lady10Godiva]

The store that I have that is cosest to lfs only carries mixed mbuna....but the fish mananger is very good and would help us get mixed ones we want. They had yellow labs, powder blues, and various zebras that we might be interested in.....they also had auratus in there but we arent looking to get those. I have been cycling the canister for awhile and have already had a strong nitrite spike and the ammonia is being used daily...and have nitrates, just waiting for nitrites to go away.

So it is still going to be a bit before fish, but we are trying to figure what we want. I know we can also get rusty cichlids from anothet shop. We are looking at a mildly aggressive mbuna setup where the fish get to four or five inches max.

[Northerly]

If the mixed mbuna look nice, and come from a dealer that knows what he is talking about then you might be ok with it. The problem with mixed mbuna is that they are mixed for a reason, and sometimes that reason is that they have been crossbreeding and therefore can sometimes APPEAR to look exactly like one breed of mbuna but are in fact 75% of the breed they appear to be and 25% something else. Again, I'm not promising that this is what you will receive i'm just sharing my opinion on the subject. The 75%/25% ratio would also mean that the hybrid is more enclined to breed with fish of another species even if your m:f ratios are spot on. I'd say you could definitely get a nice tank going with the Rusty's, various zebra, and Lab. I'd suggest sticking with one type of zebra though, be it cobalt red or OB(OB is my favorite, the males are excellent.)

[IanR29]

They are mixed for a reason and if you can help it, i would stay away form them. stick to a website if you need to live livefishdirect.com or davesfish.com. its almost like going to walmart and picking from their mix african cichlid tank, Almost. The woman at petsmart, granted they arent the most knowledgable about any of the animals there, told me that they are normally the "mutts" or unwanted by the distributor. the distibutor knows somehting that others dont about why they are in there.