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Results 1 to 10 of 22
  1. Default Newbie looking for some kind advice


    0 Not allowed!
    Hello Aquatic Community,

    I'm a british guy currently working in Dubai and completely new to aquariums.

    Recently my wife and I have been thinking about getting an aquarium, for our own pleasure, but also for our 18 month old daughter to enjoy.

    Over the past 2 weeks i've been studying hard before taking the plunge into this fascinating hobby (apologies if that's the wrong word). I must say after finding this site i've spent most of my time searching threads and learning a lot. I've also read 2 aquarium books and must have seen a few hundred YouTube videos. :)

    For our first aquarium we've decided to go for a freshwater community. I also decided that it would probably be easier to purchase a complete tank package so we settled on the Juwel Rio 400 (it's being delivered in a few days). So at the moment i'm currently just finalising the design and trying to get all the supplies for a fishless cycle.

    Here is where I have a couple of questions:

    I would love to do the Ammonia process as defined by Lady Hobbs in the Sticky. The trouble is, as others have already posted (sirpreet, with his Arowana eagerness being one example ;) ), there doesn't appear to be ammonia available here. I've checked Ace Hardware, Garden Centres, Pharmacies but no luck.

    A colleague at work has mentioned that we might be able to order "Liquor Ammonia". I've attached the following details (see the right side, not Anhydrous Ammonia):


    Is it obvious to anyone if this would be suitable? If I can get hold of some is there a small test I can do? Apart from the shake test?

    Assuming it would be ok, can I use the following calculation (based on the 25% ammonia)?
    ml = ppmlevel / (aapercent x 10 / litres)
    ml = 4 / (25.05 x 10 / 400)
    ml = 4 / (250.5 / 400)
    ml = 4 / 0.626
    ml = 6.38

    If I can't obtain Ammonia then I think i'll have to work with another method, the trouble is they seem harder to manage. I can use fish food etc, but so far I've not found anywhere on the internet to tell you when to change or how much to put in the tank. Plus the smell and mess puts me off. At least Lady Hobbs method is nicely structured, clean and easy to follow.

    We have a number of fish shops here and to be honest the more research I do it appears that the staff are very knowledgable: confirming what i've already learnt and also happy to teach me as well.

    Now the thing is they are ALL recommending a product called Denitrol by JBL for kickstarting the cycling process. I am not looking for a miracle product to help get fish in the tank quicker but are they on to something and could it be worth trying if Ammonia is not available?

    I have a couple more questions regarding tank maintenance but i'll put them in a separate thread later.

    Thank you in advance. As I said this community has already answered most of my questions.
    Last edited by Stitch; 07-05-2012 at 04:29 PM.

  2. #2

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    If you are using pure ammonia for a fishless cycle, I personally would not use any bacteria additives. I would suggest to save your money and just use the pure ammonia

    Actually, I would not use that formula to calculate the correct amount dose. IMO, it's just over complicating a process that can be pretty easy. There are also a lot of other variable to factor in that could skew the accuracy. When you first go to c add your ammonia, just add a small amount, wait an hour, and test. Repeat until you reach the ppm level that you want. You'll then have the exact amount to dose, and be able to simply calculate much much to dose in the future.

    You can get pure ammonia in most stores that sell cleaning product, at least that is true in North America
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  3. #3

    Thumbs up


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff
    Actually, I would not use that formula to calculate the correct amount dose. IMO, it's just over complicating a process that can be pretty easy. There are also a lot of other variable to factor in that could skew the accuracy. When you first go to c add your ammonia, just add a small amount, wait an hour, and test. Repeat until you reach the ppm level that you want. You'll then have the exact amount to dose, and be able to simply calculate much much to dose in the future.
    +1
    Cliff is dead on with the process.

    There is no formula because you need to determine the amount you need via the testing process after you add it. Add-wait-test.

    By the results you get you determine where you are and go from there, It's a reactive process. It feels blind at first but it works .
    Gas mileage isn't everything OIIIIIIIO
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
    Why pretend there are no stupid questions? Actually, There are many stupid questions: "Should I drink this bleach?" Is just one example.
    Having said that, Just because it's a stupid question doesn't mean that it shouldn't be asked. It's better to know.

    A warm beer is better than a cold beer. Because nothing is better than a cold beer, and a warm beer is better than nothing.

  4. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Hi,

    Thanks for the replies. The "add-wait-test" makes sense.

    The trouble is, i've pretty much given up hope of finding Ammonia here. I've got one more chance tomorrow otherwise i'll have to try another method.

    Does anyone have any links to good guides on how to do a fishless cycle other than the Ammonia method? Perhaps with bacteria additives or a detailed guide using fish food (this would be my last option due to mess/smell etc).

    If all goes well I should be ready to start cycling around Tues/Weds.

    Thank you.

  5. #5

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Stitch, are you positive your Ace Hardware does not carry what is referred to as Janitorial Strength Ammonia?

    It appears to me this will be 118 gallons? What an awesome tank to start with! Lucky you and I'm sure you are very excited.

    Well, if you can not find the ammonia you can always cycyle like people have cycled for decades before there ever was such a thing as an ammonia cycle?
    People in other countries do manage to get their tank cycled and the ammonia way is certainly not the only way to get the job done. "When in Rome", my friend. I would get that Denitrol and about 18 tetra's and get the job rolling.

    If at all possible, get as much "seasoned" media as you can from other fish keepers, friends who have tanks, stores, wherever it can be stolen.

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Hi Lady Hobbs,

    Yes, I have checked both branches of Ace Hardware, even taking in a photo I found on the web of the US bottle. Absolutely nowhere stocks ammonia.

    My work can organise Anhydrous Ammonia but after reading this i'm not going near the stuff!

    Yes, the tank is 450 litres so we are very excited to be soon joining in the fun of fish keeping.

    One of my books states that it can be easier to keep fish in larger tanks as any changes take longer to occur rather than with small tanks. Hopefully this will be true when doing the bacteria solution and fish in cycle. I see in your sticky that this can sometimes take longer to cycle but don't think we have a choice.

    Sadly seasoned material won't be possible either. I don't know anyone here that keeps fish and the shops say it is against policy to give out items like that.

    Do you think 18 tetras would be about right to get things started?

    Thank you.

  7. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I thought I would keep this thread going rather than start a new one.

    I'm currently into day 4 of having water in the tank. As I wrote above I was unable to find ammonia so have gone with JBL Denitrol bacteria starter.

    Here are some of my values:

    Day 1:
    Filled tank and added 50ml JBL Biotopol Plus (dechlor for 400 litres)
    pH : 7.5
    NH4 : 0.4
    NO2 : 0.05
    NO3 : <0.5
    Added 40 ml JBL Denitrol (initial dose for 400 litres)

    Day 2:
    pH : 7.0
    NH4 : 1.0
    NO2 : 0.05
    NO3 : 1.0
    Added 15 ml JBL Denitrol (continuation dose 1 of 9)

    Day 3:
    No records taken as now doing every other day
    Added 15 ml JBL Denitrol (continuation dose 2 of 9)

    Day 4:
    pH : 6.6
    NH4 : 3.0
    NO2 : 0.1
    NO3 : 5
    Fe : <0.02
    Added 15 ml JBL Denitrol (continuation dose 3 of 9)

    1) Do these values mean anything to you?
    2) Should the pH drop like this?
    3) I am hesitant to put fish in the tank with high NH4 values, should I continue to wait for this to come down?

    If it helps, normal pH from tap is 7.5 and Fe is

    I am also using ADA Amazonia substrate and have a number of plants. Here is a picture (excuse the quality)


  8. #8

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Ammonia levels that high will cause changes/swings in your pH, especially at 3 ppm. If you have ammonia levels, your tank certainly is not cycled yet and is not safe for fish.

    I have never cycled a tank using products like that so I can really offer any insight on that. The fishless cycle thread here (link below in my sig) should be able to help a little. Although you are using what sounds like a different source of ammonia, the cycle should develop somewhat the same.

    Is it possible for you to order ammonia on-line if you can not find it locally ?
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  9. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    A bit more information.

    I'm happy that ammonia appears to be present but should I be worried about the pH levels? I've seen on other threads they should not go too low.

    Also, is the ammonia too high or ok for a 100g tank?

    Day 5:
    pH : 6.2
    NH4 : 5.0
    NO2 : 0.1
    NO3 : 5
    Added 15 ml JBL Denitrol (continuation dose 4 of 9)

    Day 6:
    pH : 6.0
    NH4 : 5.0
    NO2 : 0.1
    NO3 : 5
    Added 15 ml JBL Denitrol (continuation dose 5 of 9)

    Day 7:
    pH : 6.0
    NH4 : 5.0
    NO2 : 0.1
    NO3 : 5
    Added 15 ml JBL Denitrol (continuation dose 6 of 9)

  10. #10

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I'm trying to figure out from your posts where the ammonia is coming from. You said you couldn't find liquid ammonia. Did you end up adding those tetra's you mentioned above or are you just using the bacteria booster? I am not understanding why you have that ammonia level at all.

    You can not cycle a tank with just a bacteria booster. You need a source of ammonia from something. Also, bacteria boosters can skew with test results, as well, sometimes so I would even be worrying about the pH for now. Especially when it's good right from the tap.

    I also am not familar with the products you are using so rather am in the dark here. Sorry.

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