Quarantine tank of death!!!! Help

[Fishguy2727]

I guess some people would reply rather than read, so to make it easier here is the article I referenced earlier:

Quarantine is frequently recommended as a good way to prevent introducing disease into a display tank. However, in most situations where it is recommended it is simply stated that it is good and should be done but absolutely no explanation of how to quarantine properly is provided. This leads to many aquarists performing quarantines that end up causing a lot more harm than they will prevent.

The idea is that the quarantine tank is the first place new fish go so that if they are carrying any diseases they will become visible and the aquarist can treat accordingly before the fish are added to the display tank which contains many more fish that the new fish would be risking. However, disease doesn't occur because a pathogen is present, the fish have to be stressed. Very few pathogens can infect healthy, unstressed fish. These pathogens are rare in the hobbby.

The Bad Quarantine Tank:
The example of the worst quarantine tank would be something like a ten gallon that is setup when the aquarist brings fish home. The tank is filled with tap water, the filter turned on, and the fish are dumped in. There are no decorations so the fish are stressed. The tank receives no water changes for the duration of quarantine. Since the tank and its filter were uncycled the fish experience the typical ammonia and even nitrite spikes of a cycling tank, which stresses them further. The aquarist wants to see his new acquisitions and inspect for any signs of illness so provides bright lighting which also stresses the fish. In order to kill any pathogens that may be present but are not showing any signs of infection he treats the tank with an assortment of medications as a preventative measure, which also stresses the fish. All of this takes place in the matter of a week or two and then the extremely stressed fish are dumped in to the display.

As you can see this is far from a comfortable situation for any fish. Although this is the extreme and hopefully far from the average aquarist's quarantine, it is a method used by many aquarists.

The problem is that the display tank is much less stressful than the average quarantine tank. This means that the quarantine tank is much more likely to stress the fish which will cause them to get sick when most likely it would not have even shown up in the display tank at all.

Pathogens are always present. No matter how well you quarantine fish there will always be pathogens present. Even if you haven't added fish in ten years, if you stress them their immune systems will be weakened and they will get sick with something.

A true quarantine is at least 90 days after all signs of anything have gone away. This is how zoos and aquariums quarantine animals. They also provide large, proper tanks that will allow the fish to thrive during the quarantine. If two months in to quarantine a fish comes down with something the clock starts over and they have to wait another 90 days. So an aquarist doing a 14 day quarantine in a ten gallon with no decor and poor water quality is a joke.

I have added fish that I knew were sick with freshwater ich directly to display tanks because I knew that was the least stressful place for them to be. Because the tank was a better setup for them than they had been in they were no longer stressed and the ich went away without any intervention at all and no other fish got sick. I have also purchased fish from tanks where every other fish was sick. The fish I pick out and add directly to my display tanks never come down with anything, neither do any other fish in the tank.

If you control stress you will control disease. You do not have to quarantine. Buy fish from a high quality source, provide high quality food and water, and you will rarely encounter any illnesses in any of your fish.

The only exception that I would make is with tanks that house very valuable fish that are more sensitive to any stressor (such as discus) or tanks that house organisms that cannot be treated with many medications (reef tanks, freshwater stingrays, etc.). In these cases quarnatining new fish may be the best way to go, but it must be done properly. This means that the tank needs to be running with fish all the time, or have a filter that can be moved from the display tank to the quarantine tank to instantly cycle the quarantine tank (either the whole filter moves or the cartridge fits the filter in the display and the quarantine). The quarantine tank should be large enough to comfortably house the fish to be quarantined. It should receive enough water changes to keep the water quality at least as good as the display tank. Many people use the display tank's water to perform water changes on the quarantine tank, often daily. This keeps the quarantine tank's water matching that of the display, which will make the transition to the display as smooth as possible. It should be decorated enough to keep the fish comfortable and stress free. If you are quarantining bottom dwellers many hides, caves, etc should be provided and minimal light. If you are quarantining mid level swimmers then dense plants should be provided.

Do not treat with medications as a preventative tool. This stresses the fish and makes that medication ineffective when diseases do come up.

The Ideal Quarantine Tank:
The ideal quarantine tank is a tank large enough to house the fish being quarantined as if it were a display. This doesn't mean the quarantine tank has to be as large as the display, only that if the fish in question were kept in the quarantine long term it would be large enough. When the aquarist purchases new fish he fills the quarantine tank with water from the display. He also sets up a filter that has been running in the display. This could be something like a sponge filter that is run in the display when the quarantine tank is not in use, or may only be a cartridge that fits both the filter on the quarantine and the filter on the display. Even using the filter cartridge from a filter on the display in the quarantine should be enough to instantly cycle the quarantine when new fish are added. The quarantine tank should not have any lighting, at least not in the first week or two. Low light can be very effective at helping to minimize stress. Indirect light from the room should be more than adequate and allow the fish to follow a day/night cycle. During the first two weeks of quarantine the light should only be used so that the aquarist can get a good look at the fish and then turned back off. Water changes should be very frequent and use water from the display tank. This will keep the chemistry of the quarantine tank matching that of the display and make the final transition that much easier on the fish. The tank should be decorated to suit the needs of the fish being quarantined. For bottom dwellers there should be multiple hides, more than the number of fish being quarantined so that they can avoid eachother if needed. Schooling mid-dwellers should have fake plants to provide shelter. Floating plants should be provided for top-dwellers. I recommend a substrate in a quarantine tank just like any other tank. It is an important and natural part of any aquatic habitat and it can help reduce stress for any bottom-dwellers. A quarantine should last for at least 4 weeks bare minimum. Ideally it is three months. This time starts after any signs of any illness are gone. Preventative medications should not be used. Medications do stress fish and adding them as a preventative measure is just an unnecessary stressor.

A quarantine tank should be so good that it should allow fish to breed. If fish breed in quarantine it is a definite sign that the quarantine is being done the way it should be.

[Lady Hobbs]

Well, a simple explanation would have been nice. I'm not going to read an in depth article that will not change my mind anyway. We all have our own opinions and mine aren't about to change.

No one here talks about dumping their fish into an uncycled quarantine tank so why you have even added that part is confusing.

[Aeonflame]

I do not buy into the notion that healthy fish become sick only when stressed. I have however, seen healthy fish contract any number of diseases with the introduction of an infected fish to the main tank.

[Honey Badger 1]

Lol Fishguy, is that the same article that you wrote and tried to get everyone to read the last time a QT question was asked? I still say you can't prove your opinion with your opinion. You do make some valid points about what constitutes a good and bad QT tank, but to advise people to not use them is poor advice. I did appreciate the part about not using medication as a preventative measure and the only time I do use medication in this way is when I have wild caught fish in my QT, they get de-wormed.

[CrunchyLeaf]

I don't like QT tanks, they usually do more harm than good.

I guess some people would reply rather than read, so to make it easier here is the article I referenced earlier.

Perhaps, if you want someone to read the article and take something away from it, making a blanket statement like the above about QT tanks being more harm than good is a bad way to meet that end.

Next time might I suggest something along the lines of "QT tanks have their place, but that place is often misunderstood. Here is an interesting article about some of the shortfalls of the common home QT tank and what you can do to better its effectiveness."

I just think it would be better received and then you won't have to be offended or irritated later that someone disagreed with your statement. And it doesn't look like you read the article that well either because I don't see anywhere that it says a proper quarantine setup causes more harm than good.

[Fishguy2727]

My point is that most of the time they are not done right. If they aren't done right it is better for the fish for them not to be QT'ed at all.

I have definitely found that most diseases require stress. There are definitely some diseases that do not require stress to infect fish, but most of the common illnesses in the hobby will not infect healthy, unstressed fish.

It is a very real problem that many people use QT tanks that are not cycled. If course we would like to think that anyone in the hobby deep enough to be on forums would know better, but I think we can all agree that it is amazing how far along some people can get in the hobby and still have certain ideas and misinformation that hasn't been corrected yet.

I am not proving my opinion with my opinion, I am expanding on it so it can be more clear why I don't usually worry about trying to get people to go through the motions of a 'quarantine' only to end up doing more harm than good most of the time.

I use a simplified 'blanket' statement because I am going to take a wild guess people don't want to see the long article posted every time the topic comes up. I also try to direct people who are interested to read it on their own. I posted it this time because it seemed some people were reacting to it without reading it at all.

It says that most quarantines 1- aren't (a couple weeks is not a quarantine) and 2- usually do more harm. The article specifies what would make a good quarantine.

[Lady Hobbs]

Of course newbies do not always have their QT cycled prior to fish added. They don't have their main tank cycled, either. The point is, we are trying to teach them it's important to do so and how not just say QT tanks are worthless and "do more harm than good."

But your "article" also says you buy fish that you know has ick or is ill and toss them in your main tank, too. REALLY? Hard to believe a person who has kept fish for as long as you have would write such stuff.

[Goes to 11!]

Here's the thing, When you say something like:

I don't like QT tanks, they usually do more harm than good.

You can see how it might not immediately be interpreted as:

My point is that most of the time they are not done right. If they aren't done right it is better for the fish for them not to be QT'ed at all.

It's not an obvious thing to me anyway although again I would chalk that up to operator error as opposed to 'bad QT tank'.

[Fishguy2727]

My experience with fish has shown to me that fish don't get sick because there is a pathogen around. This is exactly the same with humans. College kids are fine all winter and then May hits and they all get colds. Does that mean one brought in a cold virus? No, it means that cold viruses were around the whole time and they weren't stressed until finals came around and that is when they get sick.

Ich, if no other freshwater disease, works the same way. I have bought fish that I knew were sick with ich and added them directly to a display tank. I did this because I knew that if they were no longer stressed they would be able to get rid of the ich on their own, with no heat, salt, meds, or anything. Just a nice setup that meets their needs and minimizes stress. This is EXACTLY what happened. Within days their ich (which had been all over them) was gone completely. The mere presence of most pathogens will not cause illness unless the fish are stressed. I do not discuss this in the article as a recommendation, I brought it up to illustrate the point that reducing the stress can be enough to eliminate an illness.

On the opposite end of things I don't care how long a tank has been setup. You could quarantine for six months and not have added fish or had any illnesses in ten years. But if you throw something off in that tank that stresses the fish they WILL get sick with something. These tanks aren't sterile, there are always pathogens around.

[scotchbonneteater]

I have a 270 litre (70gal) main tank, 60 litre QT and a 10gal algae tank. Thanks to the help on this forum I have managed to cycle and stock my main and the whole family are very happy with the results. The QT has just saved my stock from a possible nasty death by parasite! I do agree that some QT tanks may not be good if not cycled (obviously) but mine is as I have 3 filters on my main tank 1 of which is a fluval U2, If I have fish coming I would put the U2 into my QT tank with water from my main and add 3 boiled plastic plants and some large boiled pebbles. The lighting is a small clip on LED. I have had no problems with fish in QT until now, but must admit that my QT did start out with sand substrate and a few spongebob decorations until someone here advised me to remove it all

I will be keeping my QT

Hopefully others will too.