Nitrates - Problem and Solution?

[Cermet]

That is not true. Bristlenose plecoes are perfectly safe with discus and I have had them eat black hair algae (you may need more than the one or two like other types of algae) .

Yes, even the so called "safe' Bristlenose has been known to attack discus (mostly at night.) I do agree that this is the safest of all algae eaters but it has been shown in pictures at discus sites that these can attack discus. That said, I didn't know that BN's eat black hair algae - that is nice to know.

Siamese algae eaters are well known to bother other fish - I've seen it with ones I had in the past (with angels.) They are well know to get aggressive (when older.) I even had issues with Yo-yo's with discus but did manage to train them to behave (never believed that could be done until I tried it. Some fish are rather smart.)

[Cermet]

All said and done, I installed the unit last night and it is running - the unit (rather large, and has double cylinders) will need to cycle just like any filter. The difference is, I will need to slowly remove all my other biological filters. Will leave the HOB (but remove the bio-wheel and filter media - keep the phosphate media here) so the surface will be well stired for oxygen replacement - might add an air stone. The unit removes all oxygen form the water it processes. If this works, I might remove the canister but that is some months away.

So, I will watch for not just nitrates (to fall to zero) but that no ammonia or nitrites ever go above zero. The unit delivers 15 ml every 23 sec (as per their instructions) so the flow is slow (about 90 gals/week.) This may be too slow for discus tank to hold nitrates to zero and I might need to increase the flow some (easy to do but not sure if it will process all the nitrates, then.)

I'll let every one know the results but of course, my tap nitrates have fallen (after I installed the product!) so this will really just be processing mostly the fish waste - now water changes would have been fine. Can't win some days.

Still, if it does drive my nitrates to zero and hold them there with just two weekly water changes of only 50%, I'll call this a success; if not, I'll so advise.

[Fishguy2727]

Yes, and discus have been known to beat each other to death, so discus shouldn't be in with discus either. Although it is possible, I think it is so unlikely and rare that it can be considered a safe combination. Other discus are more likely to do harm than a bristlenose.

[fishmommie]

Good luck Cermet. I hope your solution works to control both nitrates and algae.

[Cermet]

Yes, and discus have been known to beat each other to death, so discus shouldn't be in with discus either. Although it is possible, I think it is so unlikely and rare that it can be considered a safe combination. Other discus are more likely to do harm than a bristlenose.

No issue with that but many fish keepers do not know this fact and often are told these (BN and discus) are always compatible and will ignore warning signs. Just giving complete information that has been determined the hard way.

The fact that discus often ‘fight’ is the reason why people are warned to keep seven or more discus - this rule does not always hold (some times more are needed and very rarely, fewer work out fine) but it is a useful guideline to prevent trouble.

[Fishguy2727]

Bristlenose are fine almost all the time. There are no more exceptions to that than there are with discus being fine with other discus.

Use bristlenose. If you end up with one of the few exceptions that will go after discus then take that bristlenose out.

[Cermet]

First day and something rather interesting has occurred - I have partly disabled the bio-media in the HOB and carefully checked my tanks ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels - the first two are zero (as expected) and the third has fallen from 2 ppm to around 0.5 ppm; this was only a part of the surprise (didn't think the new nitrate filter would have any impact and I really don't believe it has for the tank (to that extent that I believe the plants are doing 90% of that reduction.) That all said, the filter is converting ammonia into nitrite since the effluent from that filter is reading 0.1 ppm nitrite (zero ammonia and undetectable nitrate - so some nitrate is being consumed but the turn over for the tank after 24 hours would be barely 20%.)

So, I am rather surprise that the bacteria in the nitrate bio-filter is trying to kick in - will need to feed it in two more days (a few ml of 80 proof). Will watch the nitrites in both the effluent and tank closely. Also, I'll check the ammonia since I lost 15% of my bio-filtering in the HOB and for at least a week, this will require close monitoring.

My canister is still at full capacity and the HOB's capacity has been reduced by about 50% or so. (The canister is at least 70% of my total bio-filtering for the tank currently until the nitrate filter begins to cut in. That will then handle 100% of all biological filtering besides the nitrates.)

After reading about this filter I understand its principle of operation completely now; will consider making my own (a rather simple build now that I understand its operation) in the future but only if the incredible algae "bubble falls" filter that was posted today’s doesn't work well enough (and frankly, I think it might very well be superior.)

[MuckyFish]

Algae bubble falls, filter? I don't recall this being mentioned before. Can you tell us more about this. The concept isn't a huge leap. I did have my tank overrun with algae at one point and boy did the nitrates fall. Although my mother in law didn't think it looked very sightly. 3 otos managed to significantly clean up the algae within the space of a week and nitrate readings went back to normal.

[Cermet]

Muckyfish, they are really called waterfalls filters but these were designed for slumps and this new redesign uses bubbles so I called it a bubble falls. It goes inside an existing tank (no slump system required at all!) It looks like a killer idea and this person has solved all the problem issues with both the orginal 'slump' system and some in tank designs (That had issues) for any tank/any size in a very nice, compact design.

They posted full details and photo's. The thread is under the algae section called "Lowest cost and easiest way to eliminate green hair, bubble, turf and slime algae "

Read it and yes, it not only will eliminate all algae but nitrates, ammonia, nitrites, phosphates and most likely a few things I don't even know. I love the idea and this approach. I'm hoping the guy will sell some ready made ones but building isn't too hard at all.

So check the thread out!

[Indian Woods Angels]

When looking at the possible ways in which nature obviously removes nitrate from water we realize several ways that it can be done.

Plants do use the chemical and break down the complex into a less complex.

Sunlight or exposure to ultraviolet radiant breaks the chemical bond.

Natural aeration agitation and oxygenation helps to break the chemical bond. This creates a proteinacous flocculation such as we see on a fresh water lakes beach on a windy and blustery day.

Biological reaction also works to break the chemical bond.

In our home aquarium we find that the act of dilution of nitrate is the most cost efficient of ways. However in cases where our source water to perform the dilution is poor we find ourselves in a bind.

We can treat our source water in a number of ways to achieve a good base for dilution.
We can also use a device such as an ozonizer to apply a contact oxidant such as reactive oxygen 3 to our water source and our system water to chemically oxidize or burn the water.
Upon contact with the reactive oxygen 3 molecule any and all chemicals that may be reacted upon or burned by exposure to a free radical ion of oxygen do so. This leaves the water with it's base H2O molecular structure and usually any non metallic and or non biological, non burnable elements within the water. In most cases it does not react upon the calcium factor of the water.

I would research the viability of the application of ozone technology to your aquatic systems. Economically it is actually in line with RO units and other radical water treatment systems.

Most likely to be a bit of info in here under the reef aquarium area.