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03-31-2012, 03:04 PM #1Member German Ram
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
???about Pangio Kuhli loaches from new fishkeeper
Have 5 Pangio Kuhli Loaches. Will add more later.
Currently fighting Ich with all the other fish. Kuhli's have been removed and isolated into a different tank to regulate more closely their treatment.
The Kuhli loaches do not appear to be showing any symptoms of Ich yet. Even though they did not appear to show any symptoms at the time (but the little bougars are hard to catch a good view of) decided to treat as a precaution since they would be most likely to get Ich as a bottome dweller and also several of the other fish they were sharing tank with have it.
Treated their water with salt (1T per 5 gallons) and raised their temp (now at 80F). Any thoughts or opinions from anyone with Pangio Kuhli's who have had to battle Ich on them???
Since Kuhli's are different fish somehow and more sensitive to meds/salt than other fish.....will the symptoms of Ich appear the same on their bodies as white spots?
I ask because two of them looked really pale, almost washed out white, during the stress of transferring them to their quarantine tank. (They had to spend several hours in a bucket while went to get an extra tank for them).
It was scarey to see their color so pale. And they all seemed really listless and easy to catch compared to usual magical abilities. Now, they are a little more active and eating, but still not AS active as normal... and strangely enough their color has darkened again.
Is color change normal for these loaches under certain circumstances?
How long must leave them in this salt/heat therapy before can change their water and feel safe they did not get the Ich from the other fish?
03-31-2012, 03:32 PM #2
How old is your tank? Khulis should only really be added to a tank after it has been stocked for around two months, some people would even say longer.
Is your tank they came from cycled?
Any reason for the outbreak of ich? Is your water parameters at unsafe levels? overstocked with fish?
A white khuli is never a good thing, they should be pink/orange and black when healthy. White means nearly dead or extremely stressed, khulis do not change colour as other fish do. I would treat them for the recomended time just as a precaution. When you said you had to set a new tank up for them did you mean a new tank as in, never been used before and you just filled it? If thats the case then the khulis could be in even more danger.My therapist says I need a bigger tank . . . . .
03-31-2012, 05:27 PM #3
Since kuhlis are sensitive to ich treatments, don't treat them unless you have actual signs. If they managed to avoid ich, you are stressing the fish with something unnecessary. Just keep a vigilant eye out and don't add them back to your other tank until that tank is completely ich free.
Yes, they do loose coloration when they are stressed. And since you mention you had difficulty catching them... then I'd imagine that was quite a bit of stress... then they were in a bucket with nothing to hide under or in so... more stress.
Ich is a parasite creature. It lives partially on the fish where it eats and partially in the substrate where it divides and multiplies. It is only vulnerable in the substrate stage not the on the fish stage. So if you put the kuhli's back in before eradicating the ich in the main tank then all this effort you have expended will have a net worth of 0.
03-31-2012, 07:01 PM #4Member German Ram
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
0Originally Posted by ScottishFishOriginally Posted by ScottishFish
Mistake #1: The Kuhli's were first added to a 50 gallon tank that was NOT cycled. Big mistake.
Mistake #2: Trusted pet store advice that a bacteria booster would skip the cycling process. Big mistake.
Mistake #3: Local pet store said my aquarium was so huge that it would NOT be overstocked to start with 22 fish about 1/2 - 1" long. That if I started with only a couple of fish, it would never be enough to build the bacteria in the filter and would need to continue to buy the bacteria booster. Big mistake.
I learned about the above mistakes the hard way.
To make a long story short, to correct the mistakes, all the fish were removed from the large tank that is not cycled so that I could start a fishless cycle in the large tank.
I bought a second tank, not new but used, that was mature and cycled. Based on the advice on this thread
I understaood that my transfer of this used, cycled tank was successful to keep the tank cycled and ready for use without starting the "new tank syndrome". Since then, I have done water tests every day, and all the results are very good....always 0000.
The loaches were then moved to this second tank that was already cycled. Next mistake: Later added with them a few more fish from the pet store. Didn't quarantine these new fish before adding them with the loaches.
Hence...the Ich. A few days later the new fish all have Ich.
So ....someone loaned me their fully cycled mature filter with tank to put the loaches into while treating the other fish for Ich.
Current situation then:
50 gallon tank fishless cycling with ammonia
10 gallon cycled tank has fish with ich, treated with Sera Costapur
5 gallon cycled tank has juvenile Kuhli loaches, without the obvious symptoms of white spots, but treated with 1T salt.
I have no doubt the loaches have Ich or will get it. They have been through a lot due to my many mistakes. It seemed logical and good advice to treat them with the salt even if only as a precaution to the worst situation to treat them WITH Ich and WITH the harsher medications.
My questions then, are based on ignorance of how ANY fish would behave under such conditions, show symptoms, react to treatments. But especially, the loaches since they are the more sensitive fish and without the obvious symptoms of white spots.
It is during the transfer that noticed the two smallest loaches the lighter color. I was sure they were a darker color before....but loaches are hard to tell apart and hard to see for any long period of time. Wondered if this could be the way Ich shows up on a loach, or if it was a sign of another kind of illness, or if it was normal coloring for a very young loach or because they felt extra stress.
I appreciated your answer to these questions. It doesn't seem a symptom of Ich, but of lots of stress. Fortunately, since first wrote this post, they appear their normal color and eating okay.
05-21-2012, 10:22 AM #5
The white spots of ich are actually the parasites themselves when burrowed into the fish..... so the spots aren't really a symptom of ich.
As has been mentioned, part of the life cycle of the parasite is off of the fish.... part of that time it's reproducing, and the other part is when it's zipping around the tank looking for a host to feed off of. When it finds a host, then it latches on and hence the white spots on the fish.
So, a bit part of getting rid of ich is raising the temp (which speeds up the life cycle of the parasite), salt if they tolerate it, ..... and water changes! Just with the frequent water changes (daily, I'd say) you'll physically remove a lot of the trouble makers, but not all. If you have gravel, be sure to vacuum really well as that's where they'll be part of the time when off the fish. You'll at least make a big dent in the numbers of them in your tank and the subsequent damage to your fish they'll cause.
Last edited by ArkD'Julie; 05-21-2012 at 10:25 AM.Julie
Dog, cat, cockatiel, 4 budgies, & many fishies
tank 1 - goldfish & white clouds
tank 2 - betta, neon tetras, khuli loaches, & Bob the Bristlenose