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Results 11 to 20 of 35
  1. #11

    Join Date
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    Merry Christmas - Abbeys_Mom Great advice thanks - nraposa Thanks for helping me with my cichlids - Drumachine09 Always good answers - Lady Hobbs You dont have enough gifts. - Drumachine09 
    Thanks for your help again. - Lady Hobbs goodbye reptileguy....hello Fishguy - Lady Hobbs For always giving me great answere's on my PM's. Thanks for all the help! - cocoa_pleco Thanks For Your Help & Knowledge! :) - MeganL3985 For weakening me against axolotls!!!!!!! - Nick_Pavlovski 
    I am baking today and figured I'd share...Thanks for Always Helping when it's needed! - **AquaQueen** For recommending Fluvals and Stealths - Lady Hobbs Merry Christmas :) - MeganL3985 Merry Christmas! - RichBowyer Thanks for the hikari help - Billythefish 
    No Message - LORENZO Merry Christmas - Northernguy merry christmas.. a fellow fishnutter. - LORENZO merry christmas.. a fellow fishnutter. - LORENZO Merry X-Mas!! - The Red Severum 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I need ice cream because I like, that makes it good for me.
    Aquarist since 1995
    Biologist
    Owner: Aquarium Maintenance Company
    Brian's Aquarium Care: Articles about many aspects of aquarium care.

  2. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    ^^^That is nothing but sarcasm and not worth the effort *LOL*
    Lots of tanks
    Camera - Sony A33 - Sony A58
    18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM lens
    55-200mm F4-5.6 SAM lens

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Merry Christmas - Abbeys_Mom Great advice thanks - nraposa Thanks for helping me with my cichlids - Drumachine09 Always good answers - Lady Hobbs You dont have enough gifts. - Drumachine09 
    Thanks for your help again. - Lady Hobbs goodbye reptileguy....hello Fishguy - Lady Hobbs For always giving me great answere's on my PM's. Thanks for all the help! - cocoa_pleco Thanks For Your Help & Knowledge! :) - MeganL3985 For weakening me against axolotls!!!!!!! - Nick_Pavlovski 
    I am baking today and figured I'd share...Thanks for Always Helping when it's needed! - **AquaQueen** For recommending Fluvals and Stealths - Lady Hobbs Merry Christmas :) - MeganL3985 Merry Christmas! - RichBowyer Thanks for the hikari help - Billythefish 
    No Message - LORENZO Merry Christmas - Northernguy merry christmas.. a fellow fishnutter. - LORENZO merry christmas.. a fellow fishnutter. - LORENZO Merry X-Mas!! - The Red Severum 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Okay, let me re-word:

    Live foods do not provide a complete or balanced diet.

    Live foods offer nothing nutritionally that cannot be provided with high quality pellets.

    Live foods do offer the risk of introducing pathogens.

    Live foods do offer an incomplete and unbalanced diet.

    Live foods can increase aggression, making compatibility more likely to be an issue in the future of anything fed live foods.

    Any type of live food has the potential to introduce pathogens of some kind.

    Even when gut-loaded live foods are not nutritionally complete or balanced, just not as bad as they would have been.

    There is nothing 'natural' about feeding almost any of the live foods available on the market to any of the fish they are actually fed to. The fish would not naturally eat them so it is just as unnatural as pellets.

    Our entertainment is no excuse to risk pathogens, poor nutrition, and all the other issues.

    IMO the only exceptions are fish that absolutely refuse all live foods of any kind (like needlenose gar 99% of the time), or to trigger breeding in species that will not breed without being fed just a high quality pellet or certain frozen foods. Other than that the goal should be to get fish on and keep them on a high quality pellet.
    Aquarist since 1995
    Biologist
    Owner: Aquarium Maintenance Company
    Brian's Aquarium Care: Articles about many aspects of aquarium care.

  4. #14

    Join Date
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    Thanks and your first gift!! - The Red Severum Eggs woo hoo!!! - Gayle My new buddy.  LOL - Lady Hobbs because you're always there to help! - gourami*girl A beer for my fellow canuck! - NickFish 
    For being a pic hound!!! - Alfcea thankyou for all your help - sueshewoman A round of gifts for my friends at ac! - Wild Turkey to a very good buddy,happy thanksgiving - angelcakes Congrats on MOTM - Lady Hobbs 
    For being on the ball and having the forum at heart. - Brookfish Thanks for the gift! Now heres one for you ! - CephalopodLover congrats on MOTM - angelcakes same to you - mrs fishpatrick thanks for the help - LORENZO 
    merry christmas - cocoa_pleco sorry for your loss - lovleeko Seasons Greetings! - Brookfish Joyeux Noel!  :) - KrytterKrys Happy Christmas 2008 - fins_n_fur 
    Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Northernguy 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Well reworded Fishguy!

    It is each aquarium keepers decision to feed whatever you like but it is good practice to feed highly nutritional foods as often as possible.
    Most live feeders offer little nutrition and are just good fillers.Research it.


    There are also many home-made recipes here for your fish.It does take some effort but is better then a lot of store bought foods.
    Ray Your Freindly Neighborhood,Fully Mod-ified, Self-appointed Pic Hound!! Need pics!!!
    Have you filled out your profile yet ?????????????
    The Fabulous AC ebook Please read>http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/ebook.html

  5. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I would not feed beef heart,either.

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Well i beg to differ, although a balanced diet is one thing, that we can provide i am quite sure in the wild they dont have pellets :) i feed mine mainly live foods and veggies and the odd piece of apple, both my fish have raised countless fry and are both 9 years old so i think i must have done something right :)

    Cheers (PS both are the proper way to each his/her own IMO)
    Have a great week folks
    Bubbles?.... What Bubbles?

  7. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishguy2727
    Okay, let me re-word:

    Live foods do not provide a complete or balanced diet.

    Live foods offer nothing nutritionally that cannot be provided with high quality pellets.

    Live foods do offer the risk of introducing pathogens.

    Live foods do offer an incomplete and unbalanced diet.

    Live foods can increase aggression, making compatibility more likely to be an issue in the future of anything fed live foods.

    Any type of live food has the potential to introduce pathogens of some kind.

    Even when gut-loaded live foods are not nutritionally complete or balanced, just not as bad as they would have been.

    There is nothing 'natural' about feeding almost any of the live foods available on the market to any of the fish they are actually fed to. The fish would not naturally eat them so it is just as unnatural as pellets.

    Our entertainment is no excuse to risk pathogens, poor nutrition, and all the other issues.

    IMO the only exceptions are fish that absolutely refuse all live foods of any kind (like needlenose gar 99% of the time), or to trigger breeding in species that will not breed without being fed just a high quality pellet or certain frozen foods. Other than that the goal should be to get fish on and keep them on a high quality pellet.
    Yeah i'll beg to differ also

    My O's were at no risk of pathogens, poor nutrition or any other issue

    As stated i breed my own live food, or quarinteened any i bought to gutload. You can introduce pathogens when doing a waterchange, do you not do them then?
    Poor nutrition from the occasional live feeding, when O's are mainly fed high quality pellet?? *LOL* that is a joke
    Other issues?? There are no other issues. Aggression cannot solely be planted at feeding live foods. Fish, especially O's can be aggressive with their own kind anyway. Mine were kept with small clown loaches, and feeding them live didnt suddenly turn them into loach killers *LOL*

    Anyway, you are obviously stuck with your way of thinking and i am stuck in mine.
    Lots of tanks
    Camera - Sony A33 - Sony A58
    18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM lens
    55-200mm F4-5.6 SAM lens

  8. #18

    Join Date
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    Northern Virginia
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    Merry Christmas - Abbeys_Mom Great advice thanks - nraposa Thanks for helping me with my cichlids - Drumachine09 Always good answers - Lady Hobbs You dont have enough gifts. - Drumachine09 
    Thanks for your help again. - Lady Hobbs goodbye reptileguy....hello Fishguy - Lady Hobbs For always giving me great answere's on my PM's. Thanks for all the help! - cocoa_pleco Thanks For Your Help & Knowledge! :) - MeganL3985 For weakening me against axolotls!!!!!!! - Nick_Pavlovski 
    I am baking today and figured I'd share...Thanks for Always Helping when it's needed! - **AquaQueen** For recommending Fluvals and Stealths - Lady Hobbs Merry Christmas :) - MeganL3985 Merry Christmas! - RichBowyer Thanks for the hikari help - Billythefish 
    No Message - LORENZO Merry Christmas - Northernguy merry christmas.. a fellow fishnutter. - LORENZO merry christmas.. a fellow fishnutter. - LORENZO Merry X-Mas!! - The Red Severum 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    No offense, but none of us get to decide that that both are the proper way.

    FYI:
    If what happens in nature is what you base your care on they won't do well.

    In nature the fish face:
    -Predation
    -Illness with no chance of treatment of any kind
    -Malnutrition
    -Starvation
    -Their water simply drying up
    -Their water almost drying up so they are stuck in an over-heated soup of fish waste just waiting to be eaten
    -Pollution
    -Many other issues.

    Together theses issues require your fish to produce thousands as times as many offspring as will ever make it to adulthood.

    Not to mention that effectively none of the live foods you are feeding effectively any of the fish in the hobby would ever be eaten by those fish in nature, making your live foods just as unnatural as pellets, except with poor nutrition and the risk of disease.

    For more information about how nature is not ideal you can read this article:
    http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...t=nature+ideal
    Aquarist since 1995
    Biologist
    Owner: Aquarium Maintenance Company
    Brian's Aquarium Care: Articles about many aspects of aquarium care.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
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    Awards Showcase

    Merry Christmas - Abbeys_Mom Great advice thanks - nraposa Thanks for helping me with my cichlids - Drumachine09 Always good answers - Lady Hobbs You dont have enough gifts. - Drumachine09 
    Thanks for your help again. - Lady Hobbs goodbye reptileguy....hello Fishguy - Lady Hobbs For always giving me great answere's on my PM's. Thanks for all the help! - cocoa_pleco Thanks For Your Help & Knowledge! :) - MeganL3985 For weakening me against axolotls!!!!!!! - Nick_Pavlovski 
    I am baking today and figured I'd share...Thanks for Always Helping when it's needed! - **AquaQueen** For recommending Fluvals and Stealths - Lady Hobbs Merry Christmas :) - MeganL3985 Merry Christmas! - RichBowyer Thanks for the hikari help - Billythefish 
    No Message - LORENZO Merry Christmas - Northernguy merry christmas.. a fellow fishnutter. - LORENZO merry christmas.. a fellow fishnutter. - LORENZO Merry X-Mas!! - The Red Severum 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    What pathogen can be introduced with water changes? Even if this is true, water changes are an essential part of allowing fish to thrive, live food is not (except for the few circumstances already described).

    ANYTHING that is alive IS carrying other organisms with it, at the bare minimum a wide array of bacteria, some of which can be infectious in fish. Even non-fish live foods can introduce pathogens, although the risk is less. As stated, gut loading does little more than make the live food not as unhealthy as it was before being gut loaded.

    YOU and YOUR FISH lucked out and you never experienced what can happen when feeding live food does go wrong. It happens. I have been in this industry long enough to see it happen many times. With the quality of prepared foods these days (at least with one or two) it simply isn't worth the risk.

    Yes, live foods can definitely make fish more aggressive. Although aggressive species are aggressive either way, there is a big difference between a tank of oscars that have never been fed live foods and a tank of oscars that are fed live food on a regular basis, it can and usually does make them more aggressive. This does not only apply to oscars either.
    Aquarist since 1995
    Biologist
    Owner: Aquarium Maintenance Company
    Brian's Aquarium Care: Articles about many aspects of aquarium care.

  10. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    They are not in nature that is a fact. If i was trying to recreate their natural habitat i wouldnt have them, because i couldnt, so i dont understand your issue.

    I BASE my care on nature that is the key thing, BASE, not fully take on everything in nature (see above)

    Predation does happen in tanks....how many times have you seen posts about fish missing or being eaten *L*
    I have not had any illness in my tanks for over 20yrs (oh NTD, which they came with) - so i havent had to treat anything anyway. In nature fish manage to survive nasties without treatment, or there would be no fish. Not fair to put wild fish up against ornamnetals in that regard either, most wilds have some sort of immunity to many nasties. Ornamentals do not have that, especially when people keep reaching for medications and treat as precautionary or mistreat the wrong ailment rather than just when needed.Bit like humans there really)
    Malnutrition/Starvation happens in tanks too, from fish being fed inappropriate food or just plain not enough food.
    Drying up - Some still must survive even these conditions, or there'd be no fish left would there
    Pollution happens everywhere, and if you dont think that happens in tanks, you are VERY misguided.
    Again with the many other issues *LOL*

    So i see you are of the school of taking a fish chucking it in a box and keeping it as far from nature as possible...interesting...i prefer to let some nature into my tanks...

    No offence but i dont agree with your way

    I like to see my fish healthy and in an enriched enviroment. Feeding live fish is NOT for my enjoymen
    Lots of tanks
    Camera - Sony A33 - Sony A58
    18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM lens
    55-200mm F4-5.6 SAM lens

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