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Results 11 to 20 of 34
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
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    0 Not allowed!
    Have personally had several experiences like goddess's...although not the male eggs part. I guess that wasn't part of the interview.

    "Can you give me an example of your knowledge of how animals live and thrive?"

    "Sure. Kids love animals, so it is best to sell them a bunch of extra stuff they don't need. That makes the animals happy. Sometimes if they are happy...you know like a puppy...they will even lay eggs."

    "Nice. When can you start?"

    That is probably not accurate but it seems to be close at times.

    @andrey... Have you ever compared a fishless cycle to Fish in cycle? There is a definite difference. If you haven't I suggest you observe fish in a cycle and relate that to the nitrite and ammonia levels as determined with a high quality test kit. iME the fish in cycle produces al sorts of distress. Fishless tanks don't cause that stress.
    Fyrehawk

    Getting my new 70 gal tank stocked.

    20 gal gourami tank.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    FEMA Region III
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    For all the kind words! - Brookfish   For your kind words & you need a cory - Celtic Fins   Congratulations on your awards - Celtic Fins   Kudos on the nicest comet gold Ive seen in awhile! - MCHRKiller   for being relevent to the irelevent - smaug   

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    0 Not allowed!
    I was at a local LFS Friday and overheard them talking about cycling tanks~as much filtering as all these LFSs do you'd think they'd automatically give some used filter material as "starter" for the newbies...
    29: Harlequin Raspboras, Zebra Danios, Black Skirt Tetras, Platies, Neon Tetras, CAE
    10: Otos, Amano Shrimp, Cherry Shrimp

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    124

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    congrats - Lady Hobbs   another - Lady Hobbs   another - Lady Hobbs   

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by AndreyT

    The whole "fishless cycle" thing is just a relatively new invention something some people do get the boring process of running an empty tank more exciting. A decade or two ago nobody even thought that you need to do something with the tank while it is running empty. All that "fishless cycle" thing and "adding ammonia" is really not much more than those "magical" gas additives sold at any gas stop: they don't harm you car, but they don't anything useful either.
    Yeah, since the early 80s people have been wasting their time......
    27 US gal (20 in w X 20 in h x 18in d)-
    Sand, heavily planted with Water Wisteria and Red Ludwigia.
    One large piece of driftwood and some artificial caves.
    2 female GBR
    10 Bloodfin Tetra

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Beautiful NH
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    223

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    You needed one! - korith   

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    0 Not allowed!
    I was at Petsmart last night looking for a bulb for the aquarium. Petsmart is the only place in my area that sells t5 bulbs.

    Anyway the poor betas were all laying on the bottom, listing to their sides and gasping. I went and got the fish person and pointed it out to her and said I think they needed help. she said....and I am not kidding

    "OH they are just protesting because they want us to change their water but water change day isn't till tomorrow"

    Soooo Buy your betas at petsmart. They are social political activists!

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Cadillac, MI
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    0 Not allowed!
    Andrey, tanks have been pre-cycled for years. People used to use feeder goldfish or other fish they considered expendable. They also use prawns, fish filets and peed in their tanks. Anything to produce ammonia. Some guy about 20 years ago experimended with pure ammonia figuring why not try it rather than waiting for fish to produce ammonia or rotting food and the fishless cycle using pure ammonia was born.

    If you have a larger tank that is jammed full of plants, obviously you can stock slowly and get the job done. The problem with this is that people often think "stock slowly" means stocking their tank like Sea World or how they see tanks at the fish stores. And then they have an ammonia and nitrite spike and all their fish die.

    Their is a huge difference in cycling with fish in a 50 gallon tank than in a much smaller tank, as well. The water concentration is so much greater in big tanks that ammonia levels do not reach extreme levels as they do with small amounts of water.

    If your theroy held any water *pun intended* why would you say "If any of your fish is somehow extra-super-overly sensitive to ammonia - add it later, after more hardy fish." You are saying no more than we are and that is if you cycle with fish, do it very carefully, with fish that can tolerate it more than others but be prepared to change water daily and test constantly.

    Actually you are double-talking by first saying a tank running empty for a few weeks doesn't have to be cycled and then go on to say to stock slowly with hardy fish. If a tank, indeed, did not need to be cycled as you claim, then why stock slowly with hardly fish at all?

    The point is, that if you pre-cycle the tank you can add those delicate fish or you can add 30 mbuna all at once, like they should be stocked. Many people order fish online, want expensive Discus or are inexperienced in testing and water changes. Those are the people we target here to pre-cycle the most because they are the inexperienced hobbyist.

    All fish are sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. Just because some can "tolerate" bad water conditions for a short while, does not mean it's the thing to do. Toxic water causes stress and with stress comes Ick, fin rot, bacterial conditions and other problems.

    But for you to come to this forum where we try to help the inexperienced, refer to those of us who advocate fishless cycling by calling us the fishless cycling "cult", you are doing nothing but advocating not only bad information but inaccurate information.

    My 10 gallon that has been sitting here with water in it for the last month just went threw an ammonia spike when I added 3 cherry barbs to the tank in an attempt to breed them so, just as I thought, a tank of water did nothing.

    To state cycling is a "new invention" is only new if you are inexperienced or haven't been in the hobby for long because fishless has been used for eons.
    The AC "cult" will continue to advocate fishless cycle because we try to do what's best for our fish and to save the lives of others fish who are just entering this hobby.




  6. #16

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    37

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    Its a cult thing - Aeonflame   for all the fish - mommy1   I believe this is a well deserved kickme. I have completed a fishless cycle. - Vip3r   

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Hobbs
    ...
    You are contradicting yourself. First, you talk about pre-cycling tank with some "disposable" fish. That would indeed qualify as pre-cycling. Then you claim that I'm talking about the same thing when I say that hardy fish should be added first. That's not the same thing. I'm talking about adding the actual fish that I intend to keep in the tank. It is not "disposable". In that case it is not pre-cycling. There's no "pre-" in it. The tank will start cycling, of course, once the fish is added, but with "non-disposable" fish in it. If other water parameters are not swinging wildly, the fish will survive the cycle startup perfectly fine.

    You theory about different tank sizes does not hold water. The issue is not tank size. The issue is stocking. No tank should be stocked over its reasonable limit. Yes, it is perfectly possible that ammonia spike will kill the fish in a new overstocked tank. Again, such tank might have problems with ammonia spikes even after the cycle has started. And problems with overstocking are not limited to that. Keep the tank stocked properly, and the fish will be fine during the cycle startup, regardless of how large or how small the tank is.

    And I never said that one should "stock slowly". I said that if one suspects that some fish is somehow hyper-sensitive to the cycle startup, one should add that specific fish to the tank later. Personally, I'm yet to see a fish that would have problems like that, assuming it is healthy. The only reason one would "stock slowly" is when one intends to overstock the tank.
    Last edited by AndreyT; 10-03-2011 at 05:37 AM.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by AndreyT
    The tank will start cycling, of course, once the fish is added, but with "non-disposable" fish in it. If other water parameters are not swinging wildly, the fish will survive the cycle startup perfectly fine.
    That's just not true. They might survive, but they'd be stressed the whole time. You sound like you don't really understand how cycling a tank works.

  8. #18

    Join Date
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    0 Not allowed!
    Then I can only guess you do not have a Discus tank, or a saltwater tank or a mbuna tank or place large orders of fish online.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by AndreyT
    There's absolutely no need for any "ammonia" and any "fishless cycle" to establish a new tank. The purpose of running the tank empty for some time before adding fish is to let the water parameters to settle down and stabilize, so that when you introduce the fish it won't be stressed by any wild swings in these water parameters.

    The whole "fishless cycle" thing is just a relatively new invention something some people do get the boring process of running an empty tank more exciting. A decade or two ago nobody even thought that you need to do something with the tank while it is running empty. All that "fishless cycle" thing and "adding ammonia" is really not much more than those "magical" gas additives sold at any gas stop: they don't harm you car, but they don't anything useful either.

    If you feel better by adding ammonia to your tank to run a "fishless cycle" - you are free to do so. However, just like I would expect any professional car mechanic will tell you that all these gas magical additives achieve absolutely nothing, I would expect any LFS employee to tell you that all that "fishless cycle" mumbo-jumbo is completely and totally unnecessary.

    Thank you for that utterly brilliant bit of expertise and insight into a subject that we have been so sorely misinformed on. Whatever would we have done if you hadn't showed up to enlighten us ?
    Last edited by Aeonflame; 10-03-2011 at 01:09 PM.
    <-- Click for journals
    "There is no right way to do the wrong thing." - KingFisher "Only bad things happen fast in this hobby" - Cliff Boo train boo train boo train boo train woohoo

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Ohio
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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeonflame
    Thank you for that utterly brilliant bit of expertise and insight into a subject that we have been so sorely misinformed on. Whatever would we have done if you hadn't showed up to enlighten us ?
    Hey now, stop speaking your crazy talk..jk

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