Breeding Dojos (??) and Ich Dojos - long post

[zephyrio]

So I'm probably not the first person who was impatient regarding their fish tank and I added my three original dojos to my new 55.

From what I have determined, I have two boys and a single girl. From what I've read online, you can tell the difference by comparing their pectoral fins. Two of them have almost flowy pectorals and third dojo, who is also slightly bigger, has two little normal fishy looking pectorals. I had them on a mix of white and brown sand and I couldn't tell at all, but now they're on black sand and I can totally tell. I kind of put two and two together all at once, because it appears that the female was being bred, and she's the one with the short fins. Someone correct me if I have that backwards but I don't think I do.

One male especially, he was chasing her and chasing her, keeping his head near her pectoral fin, and mirroring her every movement. The other boy wasn't so forward about it but he was in on her too.

Then I saw him wrapping around her like a doughnut, it happened very fast but I saw it happen 4 different times in about 15 minutes.

I don't know anything about this at all, and I don't even know if they're actually breeding, or if they're even old enough, or if they're just practicing, or what! I keep reading, "you will not breed your dojos, dojos are hard to breed, etc etc". You'd think they'd be a bit more mature, no? But they're doing just what I've been reading - I mean, you can never trust online sources completely - so I have no idea. The temperature in this tank is a little lower than their previous tank.

Any insight?

So then I panicked and bought what I am sure are two female dojos to add to my three so the boys don't exhaust the single female.

I was going to tank my chances and turn them loose with the resident three but now I notice the two new girls have ICH! Ah! It says right on the bottle "do not use with scale-less fish" or whatever. So what do I do!? Grapefruit Seed Extract? I'm sure there must be a remedy for this.

I just got home and the girls are acclimating to the 36 gallon (thank goodness I have it), and I guess I'll put the goldies in the 55 with the others for now. I didn't want to do that, I wanted the loaches all to themselves in the 55. I bought a stronger filter for the 55 as well, good thing!

On the bright side, I managed to snag two females with some darker coloured spots on them - just tiny, but enough that I can tell them apart, now that I got my three solid golden ones sorted out. One of the males has a barbel that is split in two, looks just like a split-end piece of hair.

If you've read this post in it's entirety, thank you! I think there are a few dedicated dojo lovers who might be able to help.

Off to google and google and google.

HA! I saw him do it again but she snuck out from him and he was just floating all curled in a circle. She has lots of hidey spots, by the way. They find her though!

[Abbeys_Mom]

I have successfully bred and raised Dojo fry. If they are releasing eggs when they spawn, then you need to remove the eggs (I siphoned them out of the tank with some small tubing, the kind you use for an air stone) into their own tank. The fry can be raised on ground flake or egg suspension.

You can see a video of mine spawning here.



And the Fry here.

[Abbeys_Mom]

Regarding the ich, you can treat with Malachite green, just use a MUCH smaller dose. I use 1/3 the recommended dosage in combination with raising the temp to 82F to help speed up the like cycle of the ich.

[zephyrio]

Thanks for replying so fast! I will pick up a bottle tomorrow and get on it asap. How gradually should I let the temp rise? It sits at 75*F with no heater.

Other than the dosage, do I follow the directions as they are stated?

As far as the spawning goes, they're doing the exact same things yours were, but they didn't get all looped up as intensely as yours did. I don't see anything like eggs being released but I watched another dojo spawning video and they looked very tiny, like miniscule air bubbles, and I could have missed them.

Things have seemed to have cooled off since I posted as far as harassing the female goes.

[mermaidwannabe]

Good that you have that separate tank to put the sick ones into. As advised above, dose sparingly. Often it doesn't require the full dosage recommended in the instructions to take care of the disease, especially if it's caught early.

Once the ich is cured and your new dojos are in your 55, I would gradually lower the temperature to 70F or slightly below. 75F is getting a bit warm for dojos. My three are in a coldwater tank that stays steady between 65F and 68F. They are active and appear very contented.

And it's true you can't always believe everything you read on the net. I have read of several dojo breedings posted by various members, here and on other forums.

They're going to like having more of their own kind together in your tank -- dojos are very social fish.

Best of success with the breeding and the curing of the ich.

-- mermaidwannabe

[Crispy]

when using meds for loaches, make sure you only dose 1/3 the recommended dosage. they are very prone to medications since they are considered 'scaleless fish' like most cats. good luck getting some eggs!!

[Vihaga]

I've never tried raising the eggs, but mine have spawned. It was pretty obvious when they were dropping eggs; they're a lot easier to see falling than I expected them to be.

[Abbeys_Mom]

You don't have to raise the temp, it just helps to treat it quicker. My loaches got Ich last month when I didn't quarantine new fish. It only took one Tetra-Ick Guard tablet and the whole tank was fine within 2 days. The tablets are designed to treat 10g, and I have a 27, so it was not quite 1/3, but close enough. Just make sure you remove any carbon from your filter. If it's a smaller tank, put a little less in. Make sure you follow up with lots of water changes.

[zephyrio]

Argh, can't figure out how to 'multi-quote' lol.

Mermaidwannabe - the 55 seems to be hovering around 69-70F and I am pretty happy with that. I agree that 75F is on the warm side...I don't know why it is so warm, I keep my house at 70-72F so it doesn't make sense that it's a whole 3-5* warmer, and there isn't even a heater in there! Unless there are mechanics behind that that I don't know about, lol. The 55 doesn't have a heater either.

Abbey's mom - I removed the carbon last night, I was glad I remembered :)

One of the Ichy females had like..a spazz this morning. She was shooting all over the place, then she suddenly seized up, sunk to the bottom and twitched out for about 10 seconds - it seemed like forever!

Why did that happen?

[mermaidwannabe]

Was there a sudden, drastic change in your barometric pressure?

Dojos are also known as weather loaches because they will go crazy like that with abrupt changes in the weather. Did any of your other dojos seem more frantic than usual?

Aside from that being the cause, sometimes weird things just happen with their bodies, probably a consequence of their having such elongated bodies, and most of the time these weird "maladies" resolve themselves.

I had thought awhile back that one of mine had had a seizure when I found him scooting upside down along the substrate, unable to right himself, and breathing very heavily and laboriously. Somebody suggested a swim bladder issue. I netted him out and put him into a bucket of tank water with an airstone and half-dosed it with Melafix and Pimafix. Left him there overnight, and the next day, he was fine. I put him back into my tank, and he has been fine ever since.

It could also be that the ich medication was affecting that one little loach of yours, or maybe the parasite, itself, was being expelled from her body in some way via the twitching. It's hard to say with dojos.

But, if she's fine, now, then that is probably the end of whatever it was. Just watch her carefully. If the ich goes away and she shows no other signs of distress, then it was a temporary thing that worked itself out.

Best of success to you. Dojos are fun and interesting fishes, and for the most part, quite hardy.

-- mermaid