Sexing Angelfish

[Indian Woods Angels]

DrNik, I breed angels and discus as well, not quite been a year but getting close.

Every single time my pairs have spawn(angels only im speaking) I notice that the male ALWAYS is the one with the enlarged crown, where the females always have none and their nose/mouth region to eye location is always an inside point rather then a smooth slope. These are P. Scalares I am speaking of.

Ive been able to be 100% accurate on dividing my males from females when I get new additions or grow out juveniles to maturity. I know the vent is deadly accurate but is this a coincidence(in over a dozen different pairs or is this something that holds water?)

Ive kept angels for about as long as you have been breeding them and have old school sexing ways from my father and some of his society members that are still in the hobby and alive. Its just something Ive kept in the back of my mind for a while and am furthering research this as well.

Also, I have a P. Scalare "smokey" that ALWAYS has his vent out, he is a proven breeder male but he lost his mate of 3 years a few weeks back, since his first spawn it hasnt retracted and there is nothing spawning in the tank other then pangio oblongas and corydoras.

This can be fairly accurate on most domestic angels in which the base genetic stock has been domestically crossed for quite a few generations. On the more recent wilds and wild crosses this method is hit or miss, most do not have typical cichlid head shape. It can also be difficult to determine the sex by the enlarging of the abdomen as the males tend to load up with semenal fluids.

[Cliff]

I have deleted a few posts in this thread as they were just leading to drama

Sorry all

[VerdantGrotto]

Angels are very difficult to Sex. Thanks for the thread. This is a great help.

[angelcraze2]

This is great info, Thanks!

What I have noticed is that when a female is gravid, but not yet ready to lay her eggs, her breeding tube, or papilla is not as obvious. Although to help sex them, the female's will always be blunter and look (to me) like there are two 'bumps'. I've attached some pics I took a while back, hope they support what I am trying to explain. These are all females.

[angelcraze2]

The male's breeding tube, at least all of mine always look the same, just a 'pointy thin stick'. Some males get a bump in their crown, like already stated, but not always. After saying that, I find a male's forehead to be more rounded. Here are some pics of some of my confirmed males and their breeding tubes. They always kind of just look like that or nothing. I am tempted to go take a pic of my male with a bump on his crown.

[drjallen3]

The male's breeding tube, at least all of mine always look the same, just a 'pointy thin stick'. Some males get a bump in their crown, like already stated, but not always. After saying that, I find a male's forehead to be more rounded. Here are some pics of some of my confirmed males and their breeding tubes. They always kind of just look like that or nothing. I am tempted to go take a pic of my male with a bump on his crown.

Hey Angel, you've seen my response to many seeking advice before but now I have my own delima. I have 4 angels that I bought at medium size. They have reached adult size now and at times they've had fights extremely violent swirling around so fast you would wonder why they didn't cause a whirlpool. I've never seen this behavior in angles in 30 years. But I noticed one of my koi swimming up an undergravel filter tube against it as though she were spawning with the other koi on her tail waiting to fertilize them. But the problem is my striped is right there watching as is also my blond. Could my problem be that I have 3 males with one female?

[angelcraze2]

Hard to say. I've always had equal sexes or more females. Tank size also comes into play. But that spinning you describe I've only seen once myself, the two angels were incompatible and had to be separated. If it were me, if the koi have formed a pair, I'd give them their own breeding tank (but not always possible). If you want to possibly watch the angels raise their young, they'll need a tank of their own.

[drjallen3]

Hard to say. I've always had equal sexes or more females. Tank size also comes into play. But that spinning you describe I've only seen once myself, the two angels were incompatible and had to be separated. If it were me, if the koi have formed a pair, I'd give them their own breeding tank (but not always possible). If you want to possibly watch the angels raise their young, they'll need a tank of their own.

Thanks Angel. That's exactly what I thought...but wanted reassurance. I have a complete 10 gallon set up in my closet with every thing I need including some water from my 55 gallon water change and for the hob filter, I can swipe some cultured media from my 55 gallon canister filter. I've bred Angles in a 10 gal. Tank before and managed to trade 75 marbled angels to my local fish store for Discus.