Endler's Livebearer (Poecilia wingei)

[dev]

It has come to my attention that not everyone on AC is aware of the Endler situation, so I thought I would bring it to your attention.

While being a close relative to Poecilia Reticulate (Guppy) the Endlers livebearer was scientifically described in 2005 as Poecilia wingei.

The original description was published by Poeser, Kempkes and Isbrucker in Contributions to Zoology, and is now widely accepted. An article was later published in Practical fishkeeping magazine.

It was concluded that P. wingei is smaller and differs in colouration and behaviour from P. reticulata (Guppy).

The species was added to fishbase some time ago:
http://www.fishbase.com/Summary/Spec...y.php?id=63223

It is now believed that P. wingei may be endangered due to human activity in their only known habitat in Venezuela.

Efforts are being made to determine their population and future. It is expected that the species will be added to the IUCN Red List in the near future. (note: I have not yet been able to confirm this with a reliable source, consider it a strong rumour)

It is important that the global fishkeeping community is responsible and makes an effort to sustain the purity of the species.

I'm not an expert on these things, but please .. If you do crossbreed P. wingei with P. reticulata at least make sure any recepient of your crossbreed is well aware of the situation. Do not promote your fish as P. wingei unless you are absolutely sure that these are pure breeds. Do not ignore the fact that this is an important species different from Guppy.

The original paper is here: http://dpc.uba.uva.nl/ctz/vol74/nr01/art07
The PFM article: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...m.php?news=889

[Rue]

Good post!

I didn't know that their habitat was in such danger...:(

[Drumachine09]

too....much....taxonomy....cant...fight....it.....



What are the dangers of crossbreeding the two? You danced around it, but never stated exactly why its bad.

[dev]

That would be to conserve the purity of the species.

Like I said, I'm no expert on this, but I'll try to give you my two cents anyway

If we have a look at goldfish we can see what kind of damage (artificial changes) that can be done to a single species. It is quite hard (at least around here) to get anything like the wild natural goldfish, that has not been specifically breed to reduce their size, enhance their colours and change their shape. Most people don't even know what a goldfish is supposed to look like.

Now imagine what uncontrolled cross species breeding can do. Will anyone be able to tell the hybrids from the real thing? Will anyone even remember that there used to be two species? What if the hybrid is released into the wild?

For goldfish and other species that have large populations in the wild, this is not so bad. They may be hard to get, but they are out there in large numbers, reminding us of who they are and what they should look like.

What if you would never be able to see real Endler's ever again?

Hopefully they will find other populations of P. wingei, or they will be able to conserve the known population one way or another. Hopefully we will never depend on captive breed fish to repopulate them in the wild. Hopefully my grandchildren will be able to experience the true beauty of Endler's the way nature intended them, and not just artificially created hybrids and colour variations.

But what if?

[dev]

Here are some nice pictures of P. wingei aswell as three pictures of hybrids (clearly marked as such). All the pictures have been taken in Norway.

http://akvaforum.no/profile.cfm?id=1...b=3&image=4615

[xoolooxunny]

YOU HEAR THAT DRUMACHINE? you better make that bruce's dinner if your crossbreeding!

I got rid of mine when they cross-bred. They were snacks for a couple Malawi's.

[Drumachine09]

YOU HEAR THAT DRUMACHINE? you better make that bruce's dinner if your crossbreeding!

I got rid of mine when they cross-bred. They were snacks for a couple Malawi's.

And that he will be!

After seeing some of those pictures of female endlers, i think it is possible that i have a female endlers. Is there any surefire way to tell?

[dev]

And that he will be!

After seeing some of those pictures of female endlers, i think it is possible that i have a female endlers. Is there any surefire way to tell?

I think it is very difficult to tell female endler's from plain female guppies. Except from size and colouration (of which the natural female has none) there's very little visible that seperates them - after all it took 30 years to be certain they were different species.

And this is of course one of the main issues with cross breeding. If one of the grand grand grand grand parents of your fancy guppy was an endler's, that could be the reason for the endler's like look, even if the parents don't have any visible signs of being a hybrid.

[Drumachine09]

I think it is very difficult to tell female endler's from plain female guppies. Except from size and colouration (of which the natural female has none) there's very little visible that seperates them - after all it took 30 years to be certain they were different species.

And this is of course one of the main issues with cross breeding. If one of the grand grand grand grand parents of your fancy guppy was an endler's, that could be the reason for the endler's like look, even if the parents don't have any visible signs of being a hybrid.

Well, we cant have that now, can we. Ill just chuck him in the arena. He might survive, at least, untill bruce gets bigger.....*dramatic music*

[dev]

Personally I don't have any immediate concerns with keeping hybrids as long as you are aware of it. The problem occurs when it can't be determined, which I assume is why pure breed dogs come with papers to prove it.