15 gallon questions

[peavs]

Hey guys, I have a few questions. I am looking at starting up a 15 gallon tank.
I already have the filter. I have to go and buy a heater, substrate, lights, test kit, plants and fish. Im planning on putting either neon or cardinal tetras in it as well as some live plants and either ghost or rcs shrimp. I would like to set this tank up as natural as possible. Heres my questions.

How many neons or cardinals can i have?
how many ghost or rcs can i have?
What plants are good for this type of setup?
How much light should i have?
What substrate should i use?
Would i need to cycle the tank if i have live plants in it?

Thanks for all the help
Jay

[dbosman]

How many neons or cardinals can i have?

If you'll accept a number, 12. That could be higher, but it depends on how much filtration and partially what type of filtration. Also, depending on your filter - how will you maintain biological activity when you do a cleaning or filter change? An Aqua Clear filter using double sponges and cleaning only one at a time provides great filtration. A throw away cartridge filter that isn't modified for more bio media doesn't.

how many ghost or rcs can i have?

Simplistically, as many as you want your tetras to eat.
But... If you have a heavily planted tank some of the shrimp will survive and thrive. Neons and cardinal are good hunters and will pick off any baby shrimp they see but RCS reproduce fast. I'd introduce the shrimp first with the plants and let them get established and breeding.
Ghost shrimp don't generally breed well for most people.

What plants are good for this type of setup?
How much light should i have?

Anything you wish to light for and fertilize for.
It really depends on the effect you wish, your pocket book or patience. Small plants grow into larger ones or multiply so you can divide them. Big plants are sometimes just big. What you want to avoid are plants that will very quickly grow too tall for the effect you wish to have and keep. Swords for instance. One can fill half your tank in several months. Most stem plants will jump start your tank but they may grow too fast. Fortunately they are generally inexpensive. When you're ready, go to a good fish shop and pick three species to start with.

Or, put a request in one of the shop and swap forums, with a dollar amount you're willing to spend. Mention the type of lighting you have. Someone or several someones will offer to ship you a mixed package of clippings and baby plants. When I offer packages, I charge $15.00 and try to fill a small flat rate box. The last batch - in warm weather - was seven, not rare but not too common, species.

A 15g is easy to light and a standard length length for light fixtures.
I'll suggest a two tube T5NO fixture four inches above the tank for medium light. On the tank it will be high light.
A T5HO fixture hung a foot above the tank is still high light for a 15g. You could allow floating plants to cover the surface and block some of the light from the substrate.

What substrate should i use?

What ever you like. For cheap and great for plant roots, swimming pool filter sand is perfect. If you're really going to get into plants you'll prefer one of the high tech substrates such as Aqua Soil, Ecco Complete, or a mix of several things. It really is up to you. Most of the colored substrates, and swimming pool filter sand, are inert so you'll need to fertilize the water column. Root tabs are great for plants that typically have large roots.

Would i need to cycle the tank if i have live plants in it?

Absolutely!
Live plants will help speed up the cycle as every surface in an established tank supports the bacteria you need but they don't bring in enough.
A handful of gravel from an established tank will help. Filter floss or sponge squeezings (filter mud) will help. None will do the job by them selves. In my opinion, packages of bacteria are usually not worth the money.

For fish less cycling here is an article by the guy who started the concept.
http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Fishlesscycle.htm

Have fun. It's not supposed to be work. Well, not all the time.

[peavs]

hey, thanks for the response. Its helped me out in some of my decisions.

[Excellence]

Welcome! But wrong questions, friend!

You have to ask yourself, what plants, fish and gravel do I want NEXT YEAR?

Our tastes change. We grow in wisdom. Crawling leads to walking and then we hunger for new decor and setups, different fish to try. And then it's a bit harder to just change things around, isn't it?

Large gravel is generally cheaper but leftover food will pollute the water with days. Finer gravel looks nicer and stops that. Allows bottom fish like cute corydoras to rummage around for those scraps without hurting their mouths. Sand is a lot heavier when wet and makes the poop stand out like a nudist in a senate hearing.

Plants? Weeeell. You'll never know better than trial and error. There's some plants that need heaps of light, which will cause algae on the glass too quickly. Some look nice like but leaves fall off too much clogging the filter opening, or collect dirt particles too easily. Other like amazons will grow triple their purchase size but snails can hole those nice leaves.

You can rinse plants until Darth Vader repents, but it's impossible remove all the snail eggs. They breed like Your Mum jokes. And when they do, it's war. You'll need assassin snails to hunt them, or loaches, who don't always.

Buy fish envisioning their adult size. Angels and sailfin "common" catfish sell very small size, but the former doubles grows fast and big and the latter takes years. Some fish like gouramis are NOT friendly community fellas. You want one, and never buy by pair, will need a lot of space or he'll bagger everyone day in night out.

Some fish are slow and graceful, like angels, gouramis or rams; but fish like zebra danios or rosy barbs never stop moving, and could annoy them. A pictus catfish prefers nighttime when everyone else is asleep and move very actively. No regard for the "neighbours."

I could blab helpful startup advice all night but I need to train my comp to recognise my voice, so hope that helps and ask away if you need specifics. Bottom line: don't buy your selections what you want NOW. You can't change gravel and plant subtrate later when you have a dam of water and fish in. Easier to change fish.

[Lady Hobbs]

A+ dbosman. Totally in agreement.

I actually have 33 neons in a 29 right now and could use more. Small guys with a small bioload are perfect. I have shrimp with mine, as well, and just as dboseman says, the smaller ones have disappeared but the bigger guys are still around.

I also would cycle before adding anything. Small tanks can get very toxic.

You can soak new plants that you buy in alum for a day and you won't have to worry about transferring any snail eggs into your new tank. 3 T. of alum in a pail of water and soak those plants overnight and you're good-to-go.

[peavs]

Thanks everyone. I am going to start cycling my tank in about a week. Im just waiting for the paint on my stand to dry. I decided to go with a mix of pfs and black gravel as my substrate. I have also picked up 2 pieces of malaysian wood for the tank. Is it a good idea to add the plants before or after i cycle the tank? The plants im looking at are java moss, amazon swords, and red cabomba to add some colour. Will the height of the swords and cabomba be an issue seeing how my tank is 18" tall?

Ive decided to go with cardinal tetras. Would I be able to put around 12-15 in? Im also planning on putting ghost shrimp in. I was thinking of putting in around 20 or so to start. Is this to much bio-load on my filter? For the filtration I have a Whisper 10-30i in-tank filter. I am however looking at upgraded to a canister filter in the near future.

[dbosman]

Thanks everyone. Will the height of the swords and cabomba be an issue seeing how my tank is 18" tall?
Ive decided to go with cardinal tetras. Would I be able to put around 12-15 in? Im also planning on putting ghost shrimp in. I was thinking of putting in around 20 or so to start. Is this to much bio-load on my filter? For the filtration I have a Whisper 10-30i in-tank filter. I am however looking at upgraded to a canister filter in the near future.

If this is an 18" tall 15g, then the foot print is 10"x20". That alters my stocking recommendations. That is roughly a 1/3 smaller base and surface area than I anticipated when you said 15g. It means taller plants will do well, but you should plan on not more than a dozen cardinal or neon tetras.

Starting your cycle with plants is fine. If the plants are coming from a tank with fish, they will have the appropriate bacteria to help start the cycle. Ghost shrimp are usually sold as feeders so they may or may not be hardy. You could add them at the start with the plants, but I'd wait a week or two.

[peavs]

It completely slipped my mind to put that it was a 15g tall. I started to cycle this weekend. I also went out this weekend and picked up 2 amazon swords, a cabomba, a java moss ball and some random plant that im not sure of. All of the plants came out of tanks that were already established so im hoping that can help speed the process up. Im not planning on more then 12 cardinal tetras. Im going to probably add the shrimp in about a week or so.