Another QT thread!

[Spardas]

First of all, some disclaimers!

1) I don't hold a degree in ichthyology; although I do hold several other degrees, so I’m educated, lol.

2) I won't claim to be an expert in fish diseases.

3) Everything I'm about to write is based on my own personal experience, others, as well as plenty of research done on my own as well as others.

Now, let's begin!

There are new people entering into the fish keeping hobby every single day but most of these folks jump into the hobby with little to no experience at all about fish keeping.

So, they go and rely on the LFS for information but we all know how accurate that can be, lol.

Therefore, people migrate onto the forums seeking advice and this is why I'm hoping that this will convey some very important details to people.

1) This has been said many times already and you'll probably find it on any good forum: "Do your homework and research and don't buy on impulse!"

2) Decide your budget and be honest about your dedication to the hobby.

3) Research on your water source and then determine how to treat it and if it's compatible with the fishes that you want.

4) Set up a QT tank, a hospital tank, and a main tank. Keep all 3 in different areas of the house (different rooms far away from each other if possible). It may seem like it's a lot of work but I take no chances. Some may think a QT tank and a hospital tank is the same thing but for me they serve two different and distinct purposes.

A QT tank should only be used for incoming new arrivals while a hospital tank should only be for sick fish or temporary housing of sick fish while the main tank is being treated.

You may think that you've had a lot of successes before without QT and it really is of no consequence either way because the fishes are so cheap (for some people). It may also be because you don't have space or don't want to do the extra work or simply don't care. Whatever your reasons are, I'm not here to judge you but I will say please think about the welfare of your fishes more. If not, don't keep it. Save yourself the time and trouble.

The rationale is simple behind QT. All livestock are collected from different areas and they are exposed to different pathogens throughout their life. Fish coming from farms are the same; they too are exposed to different pathogens and build an immune system to whatever it is over time. When you take into consideration the stress that all livestock get when shipped combined with new environment; it's a no brainer that their immune system is compromised. If you mix them in with another batch of fish with totally different pathogens on them; there's a high chance that there will be cross infection. So if you were just dump fish or livestock into the main tank; there's always a chance that you'll infect the main tank either with the incoming fish infecting the current stock or vice versa. Depending on how stocked your main tank is and what the inhabitants are; it'll be a pain to treat. So why go through all that trouble when you can take some precautionary steps to ensure or at least give yourself a peace of mind with good QT procedures.

I will always go through 6 weeks or longer when it comes to QT. It doesn't matter what it is that's going into the main tank when it comes to livestock; if it's alive, I want it in QT for me to treat, clean up, and then use livestock from the main tank and put them together in the QT and watch. If there are any outbreaks, I treat it immediately.

If you truly care about what you're doing and your fishes; you will ensure that they get the best care they can get. If you can't provide it; then don't bother with the hobby. The cost of medicine to treat fish alone will usually cost more than the fish itself. Here, I will go to the next point of diagnosis.

5) For the typical fish keeper, they will only rely on visible signs and certain symptoms, information online, and past experiences to come up with a remedy for their livestock. However, this is a big problem because of the improper use of medication or methods that led to many resistant strains of bacteria.

That's why I personally own my own microscope, gram scale, some lab equipments, and utensils to operate on the fish or to just open it up for examination and testing. If I can't do it myself; I will send the fish or the tissue samples to the lab for inspection. However, it's not always possible to send to the lab for diagnosis because of time constraint and other factors so I highly recommend everyone to get some equipment for better diagnosis.

Look into eBay for cheap microscopes and other lab equipments.

Identifying the correct disease is the hardest part of fish keeping in my own opinion followed by correct water management.

There are two methods pathogen can be introduced into any aquarium. The first is through contamination from other livestock and the second is through live food. I’ve already went through enough on my rant on QT, lol, so I’ll just talk a little about live food. Personally, I feel that if you can wean or replace live food with other diets that are just as good or even better; do it! You have to realize that an aquarium is a confined space and the density is much higher than that in the wild. Not only that, the aquarium isn’t getting fresh water constantly unless it’s a dedicated hobbyist who changes water a lot or a complex water recycle system. Therefore, the use of live food increases the chance of bacteria proliferation. Now, I’m not saying that you can’t do it; I’m just saying that one should take precaution in introducing live food into the confinement of the tank.

From my dealing with fish and treatment and research (online forums, articles, scholarly articles, statistics, books, etc.); there are 6 groups of parasites that can infect your fish.
But for the typical fish keeper, we can limit it down to 5. They are bacteria, protozoa, fungi, worms, and viruses.

Here, we go into some fancy words, lol!

The first group of pathogen can be classified as ecto-parasites. This simply means that they’re any micro organism that lives in the water column, fishes, or anything in the confinement of the tank.

The second group is endo-parasites. These guys live inside the fishes or any aquatic animal.

Finally, we have viruses. These guys can only survive within the cell and won’t last long outside of it.

I’m not going to explain all of the diseases or the treatment because it’s readily available online and some explanation can be found here on this forum as well. Please visit the links tagged in the disease section from this forum and read through it for a greater understanding of diseases.

The important thing I want people to realize and understand is the improper use of medication.

For example, you have a fish and you want to treat it but you don’t know what’s wrong with it; but you want to save it.

Usually, here are some general things people will do when a fish is sick:
a) Let it die
b) Go on forum to find answer (treat it and hope it will live, don’t treat it & hope it will live, or see answers they don’t like and just let it die)
c) Go to LFS for information (treat it and hope it will live, don’t treat it & hope it will live, or see answers they don’t like and just let it die)
d) Read books, articles, magazines for information and treatment (treat it and hope it will live, don’t treat it & hope it will live, or see answers they don’t like and just let it die)
e) Buy whatever they can get their hands on and treat and hope it works after (guessing, consulting LFS/online forums/intuition, etc.)
f) Only in rare cases will you find a person with microscope and other equipments to diagnose or anyone willing to deliver samples or live fish to the lab for testing and a necropsy report. This type of person will also most likely have an arsenal of medication at his disposal to treat immediately with multiple hospital tanks in different places.

So, only choice f seems like the least guesswork than the others. Now, I’m not saying everyone should go out and get lab equipments and get familiar with how all the pathogen may look like under a scope; but I do recommend it.

If you can’t, then you have to make some choices.

1) Is this fish worth saving?
2) Is the cost of saving the fish more than the fish itself?
3) Are you willing to spend money on expensive medicine to treat it exactly as prescribed and correctly to prevent possible mutation of resistant strains?
4) Are you willing to set up a hospital tank and possibly restart your main tank depending on the situation?

We have to take it case by case depending on the infected livestock and the kind of tank setting. But for me at least, I try to prevent it as best I can so that I wouldn’t have to even deal with it by QT initially. This is where I do all the treating if needed.

For pathogens that are considered ecto-parasites; I would use chemicals to combat them.

Here are some that can be easily acquired:

Acriflavine
Copper sulphate
Formalin
Hydrogen peroxide
Malachite green
Methylene blue
Organophosphate
Potassium Permanganate

Just do a search for these and if you have other questions about dosage or proper treatment, just send me a PM.

Now, for pathogens that are hiding below the epidermis or further, we can’t simply rely on the chemicals above but we have to use drugs and antibiotics. These are endo-parasites.

Praziquantel, Levamisole, Flubendazol, Fenbendazole are for cestodes and nematodes.
Metronidazole and Gabbrocol are for most flagellates.

For endo-bacteria, we need to use antibiotics which can be split into 2 groups based on their function.

The two groups are bactericide and bacteriostatic. In a nutshell, bactericidal antibiotics will kill the bacteria while bacteriostatic antibiotics will only slow down or inhibit their growth and interferes with the reproduction of the genetic code.

Now, as I mentioned in another thread, most of the bacteria that cause many of the diseases are mainly gram negative bacteria. However, it’s best to have a wide spectrum that covers as large of an array as possible. This would mean the antibiotic should treat wide variety of gram positive and gram negative bacteria. Now, a good idea here would be to use multiple antibiotics with multiple actions including both bacteriostatic and bactericidal and to use it with the right dosage and length of time.

This information is merely the skim of the surface. Please get yourself some books or read through lots of articles online to get a general idea of proper treatment and dosing at the correct therapeutic levels. Also, do yourself a favor and QT.

As for viral, all I can say is to get the sample to the lab while making sure the water is great to incite high immune response. It may be possible to also get vaccine for them.

This hobby can be very expensive if you simply don’t research. However, it is also a rewarding experience and it also teaches a lot for anyone who actually dedicates time and effort into this hobby. For me, it kept my knowledge of college bio/chem/physics/math intact even years after I took those classes. It also helps me learn some tricks from friends in construction, building, and electronics.

It is a hobby for me but it is more than that for the livestock that we care for. We have to consider their QOL (quality of life). We all share this hobby for our entertainment but we have to respect the life that is in our hand. If you are one of those people who simply can’t afford to do things right for whatever the reason; I urge you to step back and wash your hand from this hobby until you are fully committed to doing it right. It’s not a duty but it is a responsibility that one must keep. Duty is what you are expecting from but responsibility is what you are expected of. Keep that in mind because this hobby isn’t a duty, it is a responsibility.

[Spardas]

Two books I recommend for treament and medication usages:

Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment by Edward J. Noga

&

Handbook of Drugs and Chemicals Used In Treatment of Fish Diseases A manual of fish pharmacology and materia medica by Nelson Herwig.

[SeaWulf]

Great read! Thanks for the exellent article! (thumbs up)

[Spardas]

Another thing that should be included is to lock away medication and food or anything that can cause harm to the aquarium.

Also, watch out for ignorants spoiled little kids!

[Spardas]

Now I realized that what I typed may seem like a wall of text so here's a curtailed version (read full version if you want details and rationale):

3 types of tank:
1) QT tank

This is your quaratine tank and should be used for incoming fishes. It can be left barebottom but it would be better to paint the bottom or place something underneath the tank to prevent reflection. A sponge filter is sufficient and ensure proper aeration. For tropical fishes, ensure proper heat levels. If your fishes are extremely skittish, you can also have fake plants in there as they won't die if you have to treat the tank with medication. Another important thing is to take one fish from the main tank and mix it with new fish. See if any diseases develop. Then treat accordingly.

2) Hospital tank

This is your tank to treat sick fishes from the main tank. Use the same method of setting up as QT tank.

Most people treat a QT tank and a hospital tank as the same thing. But if you want to be extra careful; it's a good idea to have two types and leave them in separate rooms. This is especially true if you have more costly fishes. There are some virus that are capable of going through the air. Also, it's impossible to ensure complete QT due to moisture evaporated from the tanks.

3) Main tank

Best to not treat in main tank unless absolutely necessary. That's why it's better to make sure you treat everything before getting it into the main tank.

I know space is an issue but it's best to leave all 3 set up in different areas of the house in different rooms.

Note! This is probably the strictest QT procedure but it works for me at least. Do this if your fishes cost an arm and a leg, lol. It's best to be safe than sorry.

Any other accidents may still occur though even if you are careful.

[Spardas]

I found some questions posted so going to answer them.

Q: Would it be better to keep the tank running all the time, or is it possible to have a tank on standby to fill with water and fire up when the need arises?

A: You don't have to keep a QT tank running all the time. You just need to have clean non contaminated sponge filter ready to to drop in the QT tank. You can use a bucket or rubbermaid bin and just keep it aerated and feed it ammonia to keep the bacteria alive.

However, if you need to treat the tank with antibiotics, then you will just need to change water daily as it will kill nitrifying bacteria anyway. If you do 100% water change daily and your dechlor can bind ammonia/nitrite; then you don't need any nitrifying bacteria in the tank. I have kept many tanks of different type of fishes alive with just water changes before without any cycle so I know this from experience.

Q: Would it be better to have a heater that is larger than needed for the tank size to more efficiently hold a higher temp?

A: I don't think that's a good idea. There's always a chance that the heater may have issues or develop it in time. It's best to get a few smaller ones that can keep it at a certain level instead of getting one that's rated over the tank size. It can overheat and kill all your fishes. Also, watch out for the brand. There are some horror stories out there of certain brands that will blow up that can shatter your glass tank.

Q: Would it be better to have a tank that would be more restrictive in size or one that was large enough for the fish to roam?

A: This will be dependent on what kind of fish you have. Even though it's a QT tank, we would want to make them feel comfortable. Not only that, if you are QTing for a lengthy period of time (over 2 weeks); then you should get a big QT tank for ample space.

Q: What supplies would be good to have on hand for a QT, and what tools? Like a first aid kit for your hobby. I know there is a difference between Epsom salt and standard aquarium salt in treating fish. Some meds do one thing and some do another?

A: A good antibiotic that is wide spectrum (negative & positive) is recommended. Some good deworming medication and some good medicated flake food is also good to have.

Most importantly, don't dump anything into the tank unless you clearly understand the side effects or what's going on. A lot of resistant strains of pathogens is due to improper treatment and usage of medication.

[Australian natives]

great read, very informative.

but another issue to consider is the potential danger of having chemicals for medication on hand. for example, formalin can be quite harmful, i believe ingestion causes rapid death.

if you have it you would have to keep it locked away, as it isn't the sort of thing you want a child to find.

[Taurus]

Outstanding articles Spardas! Well done.