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Thread: Phantom Killer

  1. Default Phantom Killer


    0 Not allowed!
    For the past many months I've been trying to set up my 220g. I put in one giant danio out of excitement and when I woke up the next morning he had died. I tried again using a few danios and tiger barbs. The tiger barbs all died within an hour and the danios died in a couple of days. All the fish would curl and twist to their sides, make jolting moves every now and then, and all died with their mouths open...

    To clear things up, I used seeded media in all 3 filters. The parameters of the water were 0s across the board, so the tank never cycled; however that should'nt have killed the fish.

    The background in the tank is made of Mexican river pebble. The stones were washed in a mild bleach/water mix, rinsed, scrubbed, and rinsed again. The tank was filled using a new Mr Clean auto dry car wash system.

    I originally though that there was a soap inside of the filter in the car wash system. I drained, cleaned, filled and drained many times (well washed only a couple times with vinegar). I emailed Mr. Clean numerous times and every response I received said there is no soap in the filter, only active carbon. So I called a professional...

    He cleared up what I thought was soap and said that it wasn't. I told him that I thought the silicone (GE silicone II w/ bioseal) was poisoning the fish. He called his chemical guy who was unfamiliar with it. I've searched endlessly in countless forums in regards to the silicone II w/ bioseal and have found that many people say that it's toxic; however there are no reports of anyone actually using it and having fish die. There are posts from many people who say they have used silicone II w/ bioseal and have had no problems.

    The professional recommended doing a fishless cycle and told me that if there was any chemicals leaking from the silicone, that the bacteria would help neutralize what's in the water and covered up any that hasn't leaked yet. (not sure about this one). I was then told to just put a few golfish in there once the nitrites started to drop. (i'm assuming goldfish since they are cheap and messy). So I put 4 red comets in the tank...I was also told that any signs of brown algae is a very good sign...

    The fish looked good for a couple of days but then started to trail off. They started becoming less active, curled their bodies and would tilt. For the first time in my life a saw a fish blow a bubble...and at one point, one of the fish was covered in air bubbles...to cap it all off, all the fish had frayed fins and looked like they were starting to rot....and yes, there's the "very good" brown algae on the sand...

    If the goldfish had simply died like the others, then I wouldn't be as confused...but of course with my luck it had to come to this...

    The water parameters are ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates 5. The filters are a small wet dry @ 265gph, JBJ reaction 4 w/ UV canister @ 290gph and Fluval fx5 @ 925gph...Temp is at 80F...

    Could the high water temps have killed the goldfish and made them rot that way?

    I can't think of anything that would have caused all of my fish to die.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    220g South American
    90g Reef
    20g Reef
    20g Reef

  2. #2

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    There is a toxin in your tank; you should never, ever use bleach in washing a substrate, mild or otherwise, and the Mr Clean was also a mistake. Either the bleach or the Mr Clean are the source of your fish deaths, which will continue until you tear down the tank and start again. Until then, your tank will be poison for fish.

    Your substrate should be washed with water alone; I use a bucket and a strongly running garden hose jammed to the bottom of the bucket, hand stirring the gravel, and continuing until the water runs perfectly clear.

    As to cleaning the interior of the tank, I use sea salt and water, and rinse completely with water until the salt is gone. Tank is then air dried.

    Dave

  3. #3

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I use only GE Silicone I 100% rubber silicone.It works well and I have never lost a fish from it.I have some caves I made that I siliconed sand to the outside of and I have resealed 4 tanks now as well..These have been in my tanks with fish for near two yrs.
    The silicone II is NOT RECOMMENDED! The bioseal may be exactly what is wrong with your tank.The two are very different from one another.
    I suggest resealing the tank.Make sure you get it all out before starting over.
    Ray Your Freindly Neighborhood,Fully Mod-ified, Self-appointed Pic Hound!! Need pics!!!
    Have you filled out your profile yet ?????????????
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  4. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I didn't wash the sand in bleach, I actually never washed it. The bleach was used to clean the Mexican river pebbles on the background. I posted a picture in my initial post to help give viewers an idea. I didn't bother to check to see if it actually posted or not, but after this posting I'll do so, and if it's not there I'll try again.

    I don't think it was the car wash system. There are no viewable traces of soap anywhere in the tank. And if the company is correct and there is only active carbon in the filter, then that wouldn't be the culprit either. And the silicone II w/ bioseal I believe is out of the question as well...

    I'm not saying that that it couldn't be the car wash system or the silicone, but all the evidence that I've found points elsewhere. Vinegar and bleach are commonly used with aquarium and decor so I don't think that's the problem either. No other chemicals were put into the tank but there's definitely a toxin in there...maybe I'm not actually looking for an answer...maybe this is more of a frustrated vent of desperation...breaking down the whole tank is the next option and I hope it doesn't come to that, it took months to build the background...
    220g South American
    90g Reef
    20g Reef
    20g Reef

  5. #5

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Any idea where the tank was manufactured?
    300 gallon mega tank: build in progress
    75 gallon community tank: tetras, danios, corys, platies, otos, pearl gouramis, bristlenose pleco, assassin snails, red cherry shrimp, bamboo shrimp
    70 gallon growout tank: clown loaches, sailfin pleco
    60 gallon goldfish tank: fancy goldfish
    29 gallon frog tank: 1 bullfrog
    10 gallon and 5.5 gallon betta tanks: 1 male betta each, sometimes snails

  6. #6

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    The Mr. Clean auto dry system you are using has me curious......

    Now I think I know how you are using it (substituting water conditioner for the soap?) Is that the correct assumption?

    If so, are you sure it is actually adding conditioner to the water? You may be filling with what you think is de-chlorinated water that isn't

    Or on the flip side it could be over conditioning however I have heard that too much is hardly a problem but too little is.

    As far as the silicone goes, if I were you and there have been doubts raised and with ALL your fish dieing what sounds like a horrible death..... I would be inclined to change it regardless of the lack of info online about it.

    You might even consider taking a sample of the tank water to your cities water department and see if they will test it to help you find out what exactly is in it.

    Just my
    The beatings will continue until moral improves!

  7. #7

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Just a thought...

    You could test if it's the silicone or not ( and no this isn't a fish friendly experiment) by taking 2 5 gallon rubbermaid containers, putting a ring of the silicone around the bottom of one and filling them both with treated water.

    Let them sit for a day or two then place an identical fish in each and see if the silicone tub kills the fish or not.... could save you from tearing down the background or not.... again this is probably not the best idea but an idea none the less.
    The beatings will continue until moral improves!

  8. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by kel
    The Mr. Clean auto dry system you are using has me curious......

    Now I think I know how you are using it (substituting water conditioner for the soap?) Is that the correct assumption?

    If so, are you sure it is actually adding conditioner to the water? You may be filling with what you think is de-chlorinated water that isn't

    Or on the flip side it could be over conditioning however I have heard that too much is hardly a problem but too little is.

    As far as the silicone goes, if I were you and there have been doubts raised and with ALL your fish dieing what sounds like a horrible death..... I would be inclined to change it regardless of the lack of info online about it.

    You might even consider taking a sample of the tank water to your cities water department and see if they will test it to help you find out what exactly is in it.

    Just my
    I am not sure where the tank was manufactured. All that I can say is that it is a Marineland 220g with dual overflows.

    Kel, you're right on the money with the application. Though the water conditioner wasn't really working so i just put it straight in the tank. I am not sure if I put too much in, but I certainly know that it wasn't too little.

    But that was for the initial fill up. Afterwords I just ran my python from outside in to the tank and put the water conditioner in during that...

    It very well may be the silicone despite what others have said. Which means tear down time and starting all over...I'm going to call the pro back in and see what he has to say...luckily I haven't been charged yet...great and understanding people to say the least...
    220g South American
    90g Reef
    20g Reef
    20g Reef

  9. #9

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    You can reseal a tank yourself in a day.It will take a few days to be safe to use though.Check this out.
    http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ad.php?t=52239
    Ray Your Freindly Neighborhood,Fully Mod-ified, Self-appointed Pic Hound!! Need pics!!!
    Have you filled out your profile yet ?????????????
    The Fabulous AC ebook Please read>http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/ebook.html

  10. #10

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I take it you used the silicone to put all those river rocks on the back of the tank?

    For the inside seals you could probably just put a thin coat of good silicone over it, but the amount used on that back part is quite a bit I would imagine.

    You are sure it was fully cured? thick globs of silicone can take quite a while IME.
    Who is "General Failure" and why is he reading my hard drive?

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