Ammonia has surfactant, but no foam

**fishlover49** · 01-10-2009, 11:30 AM

I always thought if ammonia doesn't foam, it does not have soap in it. The label says it does, but no foam whatsoever and I shook the crap out of it.

I wanted to try a fishless cycle this time, with pure ammonia, but not sure where I can even buy it around here. I checked the Dollar General, they didn't have any. Any suggestions anyone? Thanks!

**travie** · 01-10-2009, 12:33 PM

If it has surfactants in it, do not use it. Even if you can't tell they are in there, they probably are since the bottle says so. I suggest looking in a hardware store. Order online if you have to.

**Lady Hobbs** · 01-10-2009, 01:46 PM

OK. Here comes Hobbs to confuse the issue. My ammonia, purchased at The Family Dollar, is pure ammonia but says surfactant, water, aqua ammonia. It does not foam and has cycled 4 tanks.

My house cleaning ammonia gives the ingredients of ammonia hydroxide, surfactant, perfume and dye. It foams when shook.

Surfactant is NOT a soap but is used in the making of soap. It is continually reported as soap instead of just an ingredient.
Copied from the net below:

In another context, a surfactant is the ingredient in soap or detergent that can break the surface tension of water, making it possible to get things much cleaner than just dunking them in water would.
surfactant is any compound which is used as surface sterilizing agents, or in other words.. they are disinfectants used for removing the microbes present in the surface. some surfactants are phenol - which is the first used disinfectant, ethanol - 70% concentration is used in most of the laboratories, dettol - a readymade surfactant, formaldehyde - too an effective surfactant.

**Lady Hobbs** · 01-10-2009, 01:57 PM

Sounds to me that surfactant is not just one ingredient but can be made from more than one thing.....ethanol or formaldehyde. It sounds not like a soap at all but more of a sterilizing agent. I can't debate a point I don't understand and can't understand what this is but all I can say it is in my ammonia, my ammonia does not foam and it worked for me.

**MCHRKiller** · 01-10-2009, 02:24 PM

Being on the safe side of using this product I would do like a 90-95% waterchange leaving only enough water to cover your substrate and water in your filter...just to keep the bacteria saftely wet before you stock :)

**Algenco** · 01-10-2009, 02:43 PM

I beleive the "surfactant" is ammonia.
Find the cheapest ammonia, it won't have any other ingredients

**Wild Turkey** · 01-10-2009, 02:46 PM

Better safe than sorry. I would find ammonia without surfactants its not that tough to find.

"Surfactants" could mean literally anything that reacts. So, depending on what "surface acting agents" theyve used, they may be harmful, or have absorbed harmful stuff. Soap is just an example of a SAA

**Northernguy** · 01-10-2009, 02:51 PM

I am always able to find it in the grocery store near the laundry detergents and cleaners.

**fishlover49** · 01-10-2009, 03:02 PM

Thanks everyone! Still not sure what to do though.

I did fill the tank with water from an established tank with lots of gunk from the gravel in the water. I also squeezed an old filter onto the new one and put some of the gravel from the established tank into the new one. Not sure what to do now. My other two tanks I cycled with fish and I never lost one fish during cycling or did they ever seem stressed in any way. I just thought I would try the ammonia cycling for a change.

**Lady Hobbs** · 01-10-2009, 03:17 PM

You could move your gunky old filter to this new tank and possibly have an instant cycle between that filter and the gravel. The bacteria is in the filter and gravel, not in the water itself, so moving over the water did little but the rest of your actions did a lot toward a fast cycle.

I have no qualms against using my ammonia since I've already used it for 4 tanks. If it does not foam, it contains no soaps and soaps or dyes or perfumes is what you need to avoid at all costs.