goldfish company

**Rue** · 02-02-2008, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by patrick87878

i wasn't asking whether they could go into a tank with tropicals, i meant could a fantail goldfish be in a 10 gal tank by itself with no other fish of the same species or any other species and still be happy?

...no...

The others have posted the reasons...

**Rue** · 02-02-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Fishguy2727

I am not sure whether there is any harm to a goldfish being in warmer water than they have been kept in historically. The issue that needs to be kept in mind is the rise in metabolic rate. This results in: 1-higher need for oxygen (they should have an air pump on the tank anyways), 2-more filtration (they need a lot anyways), and 3-more water changes (they definitely need a lot of that too). The water change schedule minimum is based on nitrate concentration, which needs to be no more than 20ppm. So although it is not really recommended, if they are already together and there are no issues then I would not worry about it.

As far as minimum tank size goes, the best guide I have seen is a minimum of a 20 gallon for one, and an additional 10 gallons for every additional goldfish. The other part is that they are schooling. So they are ideally in groups of at least 6. This puts a minimum sized school in a 65-75.

Harm? How do you measure harm? We're back to what they can live in as opposed to what they should live in. With goldfish we're talking about an organism that has the potential to live 40 years. Most people are amazed when their fish reach the age of 2-5. Very few have fish that live to 10.

I keep using the same example.

A man can live in an elevator, or in a cell on death row, for a very long time.

But do you think that's an ideal environment?

I have to go watch my son play basketball...we can talk more later...

**Fishguy2727** · 02-03-2008, 01:39 AM

Trust me, I count anything that brings the quality of life down from ideal as harm. I have not seen anything that tells me there is harm when they are properly cared for and the temperature happens to be warmer than they are classically kept in. Some of the best good old-fashioned orange goldfish I have seen were in an outdoor pond in Florida just outside of the Everglades. Obviously with an outdoor pond there are other factors, but it shows that the temperature will not necessarily do any harm.

**MelonMan** · 02-03-2008, 08:38 AM

What Are You People Talking About Where Did You Get The Idea About Goldfish Living In A Tropical Tank!! I Asked If They Could Live By Themsleves And Be Happy. You Have Totally Strayed Away From The Question!

**MelonMan** · 02-03-2008, 08:40 AM

The First Two Answers Make Sense And Answer My Question But Then You Just Start Arguing About Nothing

**Rue** · 02-03-2008, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Rue

...no...

The others have posted the reasons...

Quoting myself again.

And to clarify:

No! Goldfish are a schooling fish that need a great deal of water.

They can not live in a 10 gallon tank by themselves and be happy.

No! No! And for good measure: No!

I hope this response is what you were looking for.

**Rue** · 02-03-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Fishguy2727

Trust me, I count anything that brings the quality of life down from ideal as harm. I have not seen anything that tells me there is harm when they are properly cared for and the temperature happens to be warmer than they are classically kept in. Some of the best good old-fashioned orange goldfish I have seen were in an outdoor pond in Florida just outside of the Everglades. Obviously with an outdoor pond there are other factors, but it shows that the temperature will not necessarily do any harm.

...and just because I apparently like arguing about nothing

A pond and an aquarium are very different. I don't know that you can really equate the two.

**Fishguy2727** · 02-03-2008, 02:49 PM

I specified that. My point is that a pond right outside the eveglades will reach if not exceed normal tropical tank temps. If they can thrive in there then obviously temp is not necessarily an issue.

I think this is one of those things where if there are other problems (low water quality, poor aeration, etc.), temp may amplify them. But if all is well there is not an issue.

Just because someone asks about one specific question does not necessarily mean that the entire thread should have nothing mentioned except that question. Some of the most important issues that are discussed are secondary to other things. Many people overlook things that are noted in the discussion of something else. Does that mean we should not address it? We try and held as best we can. That may mean discussing other potential problems along with the original concern.

And to address the original issue: 1- a 10 is not big enough for a goldfish, and 2-they need company.

Ty · 02-03-2008, 03:11 PM

just to sum it up, big tank, give them friends.

**Rue** · 02-03-2008, 03:17 PM

Ty said it very well!

In an outdoor pond, you get microenvironments. Generally there will be shaded areas, deeper areas and the goldfish will move to where they're most comfortable. Plus, the higher rate, evaporation due to wind, cloud cover, etc, will also change over the course of day affecting localized pockets of water.

Which is what you were referring to.

BUT...what we don't know is the average life-span of a hot-climate pond goldfish vs. a cold-climate pond goldfish. Unless we have that info., we can't generalize.