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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelcraze2 View Post
    I agree but honestly, your question is hard for me to find other than aquarists saying so. I don't have time atm to read through and find you an article you don't have an issue with. Scientists are not performing tests for ornamental fish. It's common sense, sodium chloride at whichever concentration causes fluid retention in many animals, including fish. I don't think the concentration is that high anymore, not sure why you're wasting so much time. Dropsy is a symptom, not a disease, so the underlying cause still needs to be addressed. Magnesium sulfate will only relieve the fluid retention and pressure on fis internal organs, he still needs kanamycin for internal infection, otherwise it's the kidneys failing.
    im not wasting time... I going mostly by your advices, for now im using epsom and kanamicyn and prazi,im just considering to add NaCl because i did read in few places that it is helpful and for now im not seeing improvment..

  2. #82

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    If medication is helping, you will see an improvement within a 72 hour period.

  3. #83

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    Actually, I'll rephrase. Sodium chloride causes a bloated fish to retain fluids, while magnesium sulfate helps the fish to expel it.

    I realized I was insinuating NaCl causes retention, it's actually counter productive when trying to treat bloat. It would have to be a lot of salt fir a prolonged time for it to cause bloating.
    Last edited by angelcraze2; 10-02-2018 at 06:52 PM.
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  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelcraze2 View Post
    Actually, I'll rephrase. Sodium chloride causes a bloated fish to retain fluids, while magnesium sulfate helps the fish to expel it.
    Lets try to find out someone or something that will explain how.. i really want to understand this..

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveThemAll1 View Post
    Lets try to find out someone or something that will explain how.. i really want to understand this..
    Look up osmotic regulation.

    Magnesium sulfate acts as a diuretic and contains chemicals that causes an increase of water production in the intestines. This is how constipated fish are forced to expel out feces with a high enough concentration of dissolved epsom salt in the water. There's no stopping that water build up from flowing out.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksor View Post
    Look up osmotic regulation.

    Magnesium sulfate acts as a diuretic and contains chemicals that causes an increase of water production in the intestines. This is how constipated fish are forced to expel out feces with a high enough concentration of dissolved epsom salt in the water. There's no stopping that water build up from flowing out.
    i know, but why NaCl is different? the reason magnesuim sulfate is doing this is beacause it is using osmosis to draw water from the intestine when a high concentrate solution is insine the intestine. thats the same principle for treating dropsy, and its the same thing with nacl. high concentrations in the water enviorment cause less water to flow inside the fish...

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveThemAll1 View Post
    i know, but why NaCl is different? the reason magnesuim sulfate is doing this is beacause it is using osmosis to draw water from the intestine when a high concentrate solution is insine the intestine. thats the same principle for treating dropsy, and its the same thing with nacl. high concentrations in the water enviorment cause less water to flow inside the fish...
    Don't confuse chemicals that cause water to be made inside the fish (that's what a diuretic does), and slowing down the transfer of water between the fish's body and the environment. NaCl doesn't cause the creation of water in the body of the fish. NaCl slows down how much minerals/urine freshwater fish can release from the body.

    Stick a soft water fish in a hard or higher TDS water environment, and their organs are working harder to expel minerals and urine than a hard water fish in the same environment. Working harder means more energy spent, and less energy for growth.
    Last edited by Rocksor; 10-02-2018 at 08:34 PM.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksor View Post
    Don't confuse chemicals that cause water to be made inside the fish (that's what a diuretic does), and slowing down the transfer of water between the fish's body and the environment. NaCl doesn't cause the creation of water in the body of the fish. NaCl slows down how much minerals/urine freshwater fish can release from the body.

    Stick a soft water fish in a hard or higher TDS water environment, and their organs are working harder to expel minerals and urine than a hard water fish in the same environment. Working harder means more energy spent, and less energy for growth.
    I dont know of epsom salt as a diuretic. diuretics are chemicals that cause an increase of blood flow to the kidneys.from what i know epsom salt causing water to diffuse into the intestine tract from blood vessels there , but thats only if you put the epsom salt in to the intestines, by food. what you wrote about hard and soft water is correct i a general but its more complicate then that,and thats another compicate topic about ions and cations . Na and Cl dosent have the same properties as other ions which are found in hard water enviorment and they dosent effect water "hardness" {btw mg ions dose effect water hardness} thats at least from what ive learned. i still dont understand base on what you are saying that NaCl cause fish body to slow down urine production, how does it do that?

  9. #89

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    Salt does not slow down urine production. It acts as a "barrier" to the release of urine. Hence affecting osmotic regulation.

    Think of a TDS value of 50ppm as being a new coffee filter and a TDS value of 400ppm as a used coffee filter. The new coffee filter allows coffee to flow through it faster. The used coffee filter allows coffee to flow through at a much slower rate. In order to get the same flow rate, you have to use more pressure on the coffee to get it through the used coffee filter.

  10. #90

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    So would too much Epsom Salts raise the TDS too high making it harder for the fish to expel fluids as well? Is it important to use a small amount as a diuretic depending on whether the fish prefers soft or hard water?
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