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  1. #11

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    2 Not allowed!
    Can you post a picture of fishes affected? How big are these fishes?
    What is the list of tank inhabitants? The parasite itself isn't always present but your fishes or something else was a carrier. A fish that is not a carrier going into a sterile tank or a tank without ich will not be infected by the parasite at all regardless of how stressed it is.
    I think it is important to understand the lifecycle of these parasites and know when they are most vulnerable. There is no readily available medication that can kill them when they are not in the free swimming stage.
    Are you dosing as instructed in the same time period? I find it strange that you've gone through Kordon and Paraguard with no improvement. This is making me wonder if this is ich at all.
    Think with logic and rationality more than emotion. Act with moderation and consideration. Contemplate ideals and realistic goals and weigh out possibilities and options. Temper not with personal delusions or false hope but learn to accept and move on.


  2. #12

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    0 Not allowed!
    I was rereading this, I am wondering the same thing. Could this be columnaris?

    It's usually fuzzy (I think), but I've seen solid white patches. Especially if you are noticing localized infection.
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  3. #13

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    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spardas View Post
    Can you post a picture of fishes affected? How big are these fishes?
    What is the list of tank inhabitants? The parasite itself isn't always present but your fishes or something else was a carrier. A fish that is not a carrier going into a sterile tank or a tank without ich will not be infected by the parasite at all regardless of how stressed it is.
    I think it is important to understand the lifecycle of these parasites and know when they are most vulnerable. There is no readily available medication that can kill them when they are not in the free swimming stage.
    Are you dosing as instructed in the same time period? I find it strange that you've gone through Kordon and Paraguard with no improvement. This is making me wonder if this is ich at all.
    100%. If you haven't added fish, plants or carried in the parasite to your system in some other way in the last 6 weeks you were not dealing with Ich in the first place. Need pictures.

  4. #14

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    1 Not allowed!
    Also ich looks like round grains of salt, maybe a mix of sea salt and table salt grain size, but they've always been round and not odd shapes.
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  5. #15

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    0 Not allowed!
    Whatever this is, it is multiplying very quickly. I looked at my polit today and they were all over his body. I use him as a gauge since his lesions started on his head and were easily seen against his grayish background. The first lesion he had was between the eyes, and though it has stayed the same size, he keeps getting more on his body. Every morning I expect to see him or another fish dead. Not one of the three medications I have used is making a dent. At one point, my yellow top was lesion free, but it came back worse than it started at. At this point, I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to lose some if not all of my fish. There has to be something that will help.

    Has anyone used ich medications side by side with an antibiotic? The ich medications say they are anti-parasitic, anti-fungal and anti-bacterial, but that seems kind of generalized.

  6. #16

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    1 Not allowed!
    What antibiotics do you have on hand? Yes, you can use Paraguard with kanamycin or nitrofurazone. Nitrofurizone would be more effective against external bacteria; however, if you feel that the fish has gotten to a severe state, the infection becoming septic, the kanamycin would be more effective.

    Here is a reference to look at that demonstrates that these can be used together. The author is speaking of using a "cocktail" of medications to treat unidentified illnesses. In this case, he is using 3 different medications, but you can see that there are no issues using Paraguard with either nitrofurazone or kanamycin.

    Quote from http://www.americanaquariumproducts....dication2.html

    *AAP Combinations (similar to Aquatronics Paragon & Paragon 2);

    If used EXACTLY as prescribed, these are some of the better fish treatment combinations I have every used and is especially good when fish are dying suddenly for causes that are not clear.

    OPTION ONE; (similar to Paragon 2); AAP Furan 2 (Nitrofurazone) OR AAP Triple Sulfa can be combined WITH AAP Kanamycin (AAP Spectrogram combines Kanamycin & Nitrofurazone in a more effective/synergistic combination that treating separately) & AAP Super Ich Plus (or ParaGuard) OR Medicated Wonder Shell for a VERY strong fungal, & bacterial infection treatment.
    OPTION TWO; (similar to Paragon 1); use Nitrofurazone (AAP Furan 2), AAP Super Ich Plus OR Medicated Wonder Shell, & Metronidazole for an excellent parasitic, fungal, & bacterial infection treatment.


    PLEASE NOTE; that use of the THREE ingredient combination IS REQUIRED for this to have a decent chance at being effective in severe/critical fish infections!! Using this "in part" rarely works nearly as well since this is a synergistic combination and the three ingredient combination MUST be used.
    While this can be harsh on the aquarium system, it is generally safe for most fish and a healthy well established aquarium.

  7. #17

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    0 Not allowed!
    I have spent the last two hours going through online photos of fish diseases, scale and skin infections etc. etc. Everytime I find something that remotely resembles my fish's lesions, other photos of said disease/infections don't look anything like it

    This is definately not ich. All the ich photos look like a peppering of small dots. There are none of those on my fish. Some pictures of fin rot look similar, especially on the lips, but the fins and tails are not effected. I'll keep looking to see if I can find something closer. In the meantime, if I treat with an antibiotic, will it send me back to ground zero as far as BB? Antibiotics are usually made to kill groups of bacteria (ex. gram negative). I can't remove the ceramic rings to be used after treatment, because it would only reseed the tank with the wrong bacteria. I've got to do something or my whole tank is going to die.

  8. #18

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    1 Not allowed!
    How long has this tank been set up?
    How many fish have you lost so far?

    The symptoms you describe sound like columnaris, and with columnaris you will not have all the possible line up of symptoms to cleanly diagnose it.
    There are 4 different strains- 1 of which, the fastest killing strain, kills within the first 12 to 48 hours. This strain tends to be symptom-less and inexplicable--- the fish die and you do not know why. Often it is young fish who will die in most cases from this strain. The other strains have varying timetables and symptoms. The slowest strain appears to be more of an internal bacterial infection that slowly weakens the fish and leads to external-secondary bacterial infection.

    What is telling is the areas on your fish that have whitened areas, involvement on the lips ( this is common - the disease is also called "Cotton- mouth"-- dont take that too literally, it doesn't always look "cottony").

    The nitrifying bacteria is composed primarily of gram positive bacteria- almost exclusively. Your bacteria will be set back temporarily, but will not be "lost". the severity of the setback depends on how established your biofilter is. That is why i ask how long set-up.

    Treatment: nitrofurazone and kanamycin. It should shut it down pretty fast.

  9. #19

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    2 Not allowed!
    discusluv is taking excellent care, I have nothing to add except that agree 100% with her.
    @discusluv I can tell you a bit of the history with this tank.

    OP had an issue with feeding flakes in the beginning. They were being sucked into the HOB filters and settling in the gravel substrate. His 40g tank was having a hard time processing all the waste and was not cycling. So he bought a Fluval 306 canister filter to replace the two Whisper HOBs. He was not able to siphon deep enough to remove it all the waste in the substrate though and soon broke out with this brown slime bacteria which I think was organic matter from all the decaying waste in the substrate. He ended up putting all the fish in a rubbermaid bin, bought new tubes and such for the filter, completely disinfected everything to do with the main tank. When he started up the main tank again, he used sand instead of gravel. This has helped him keep the substrate cleaner. It's also a rift cichlid sand, so would add minerals that would benefit his fish since his pH was also low before this.

    Everything was going better once he disinfected everything and switched to sand, he added the fish back to the main tank and the cycle didn't take long to happen since I suspect some of it was preserved in the rubbermaid.

    Here is where he changed to sand and started the main tank again.
    http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...10#post1492010
    And
    http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...77#post1492277

    It was looking better until this white mark thing. I don't believe he added anything in the last few months for it to be ich. I believe columnaris bacteria grew in the substate mulm.

    Hope this helps answer your question.
    Last edited by angelcraze2; 09-11-2018 at 05:08 PM.
    GiVe Me sHrEd TiLL i'M dEaD
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  10. #20

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    1 Not allowed!
    Thanks for the info @angelcraze2.
    Looks like his BB is pretty well established. May not even register any issues at all with medicating.

    When medicating for columnaris, water changes should be made @ 50% every 3 days. This will make the medication much more effective by lowering organics in water. Its also a good idea to lower temperature- the disease thrives at higher temperature.

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