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  1. #1

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    Default Outdoor bin, input please


    0 Not allowed!
    Alright so, I'm about ready to go on this outdoor bin project I want to try. I've got a nice spot picked out away from where the guys spray for bugs. I'm looking for some input. I'm thinking I have most my supplies gathered.

    So the idea is to bin some RCS and CPDs for the summer and kind of see how it goes. I've read quite a bit but everyone does things their own way, so I'm just looking for opinions and advice.

    1. Should I go ahead and get a bin from the feed store rather than just a large tote? Seems some people have blamed issues on the plastics used with totes but I don't think either is technically considered food safe? I could also likely track down some food grade barrels but I've no idea how they clean them and the depth might be an issue for me to monitor things and for heat issues.

    2. Bugs.... Should I give the endlers a go at controlling them? I seriously don't want a mosquito farm. And dragonflys, what in the world do people do for those larvae? Both get fierce here in spring but they do an aerial spray at the river for the skeeters because of West Nile so they usually get somewhat thin by the time the heat rolls in but dragonflys visit me all summer and I've yet to figure out why since usually I don't keep any standing water around. I do have a bunch of fruit trees though and the stupid nasty earwigs love those, are earwigs any threat other than the obviously going to happen drownings?

    3. Heat! Triple digits in the summer and often staying in the upper 80's overnight. It's another reason I'm thinking a barrel is not my best bet, surface area in a bin would help keep things cool and as dry as it is here evap is going to help too but I'm sure every one will be above their preferences for several weeks.

    4. Filtration will be a couple well cycled and established sponges, the dwarf water lettuce I've managed to finally get going, moss and Riccia from the cull tank I kept. I fully expect the water lettuce to go nuts but considering the bin will be out of direct sunlight and shaded is that bright enough for it to really take off? Should I keep those bubbles on high during heat to keep water circulation and surface agitation?

    5. I actually am doubting myself here and I feel stupid not being confident in what my experience tells me on this. Hose water is still municipal, I'll be dechlorinating large amounts obviously. I use Prime. I can top off as frequently as I can with RODI to keep minerals down but won't be running the setup RODI parameters it'll be tap as I expect probably daily top offs Buuuut I have a someone who has done this before question.... I have a spigot riiight next to where I'm putting this bin and I'm thinking I can set up a float straight from it to the bin to keep it topped off. With my hard water though I'm concerned about the mineral buildup and the chlorine if I do so, am I off base with that concern? It'd be awful nice to run a float, is there a way to deal with those issues? Are they as much an issue outside as inside? I don't want to cover the bin as I want the evap cooling so I don't cook the stock lol.

    6. Please tell me what I don't know I should ask. This isn't a permanent outdoor bin just seasonal and more or less another experiment. Buuuut I don't want to kill things by sheer ignorance, I'd rather at least know I made the wrong choice somewhere. Preferably I won't do either but at least I can learn if I know what may or may not be a good idea.

    7. FYI I'm thinking 30ish (no less) gallons but I'm not sure that's enough volume for the temp swings? Doing a bin it would be easy to go a bit larger if that's recommended.

    8. Lastly, those galvanized water troughs? I know people have kept fish in them but what about shrimp? If it's a no go I'll stick with the plastic/rubber type stuff. What about the larger version of those hard plastic kiddie pools? Evap would be great off a kiddie pool and I think they are $20-$30.

  2. #2

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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    3. Heat! Triple digits in the summer and often staying in the upper 80's overnight. It's another reason I'm thinking a barrel is not my best bet, surface area in a bin would help keep things cool and as dry as it is here evap is going to help too but I'm sure every one will be above their preferences for several weeks.
    I think this is going to be your biggest issue...CPD's temp range tops out around 78F, RCS around 82F
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  3. #3

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaphppy7 View Post
    I think this is going to be your biggest issue...CPD's temp range tops out around 78F, RCS around 82F
    I do have a fan I use out there, just one of those stand up rotating fans. I put out for a decent one last year for the dogs (and myself) when our wind isn't blowing. Wind blows here most of the time. I know just hood evap can help cool but I don't know how much overall. It kept my tanks significantly cooler than my house last year but the temps in my house when the ac was out didn't reach triple digits inside or didn't do so for long as far as I could tell (in my extremely hot, irritable, sleep deprived state lol) the house stayed around 10 degrees cooler than outside and the tanks (after getting everything open and fans set appropriately) kept everything 82-84. Everyone did get a bit warmer but I within a couple weeks had everyone around 82-84 and they stayed there for the peak heat and everyone tolerated (CPDs even spawned my largest spawn at that time) but over that for that same period of time I'm not sure.

  4. #4

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    Default


    2 Not allowed!
    1. I've summered white clouds in storage totes with no issues. Perhaps you could also leach out the majority of any chemicals by filling the totes with water and letting them sit for a few days.

    2. Dragonfly nymphs will likely eat your shrimp and fish. Perhaps you could exclude the adults with fine mesh during their breeding season? Endlers aren't very predatory, a better bet would be zebra danios. However, anything with a strong predator instinct will likely also hunt baby shrimp. You could try those BTi mosquito tabs, although you'd have to first find out if they are harmful to shrimp.

    3. Getting a wider and shallower container would help with cooling, oxygenation, waste control (more space for plants) as well as provide more living space for shrimp. Be prepared for lots of evaporation.

    4. Definitely maintain aeration, especially at high temperatures. I've heard that water lettuce can be finicky sometimes, so maybe you could toss in a whole bunch of fast growing species and see which ones win out? There's water hyacinth, salvinia, frogbit, red root floater, hornwort, duckweed...

    5. I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for here. It's probably because I just crawled out of bed. Are you wondering how to minimize the buildup of dissolved compounds due to evaporation? You could lessen the chance of dangerous levels of mineral buildup by topping up only with RO/DI or rainwater. Ideally you'd be able to change out lots of water frequently, but if you had to pick one, changing out most of the water occasionally will be better than changing out a small amount frequently in terms of reducing mineral buildup.



    3.

  5. #5

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Perhaps you could also leach out the majority of any chemicals by filling the totes with water and letting them sit for a few days.
    That's what I was thinking initially was to fill them for a couple weeks before moving things in. I'll be sure to let them sit.

    Perhaps you could exclude the adults with fine mesh during their breeding season? Endlers aren't very predatory, a better bet would be zebra danios. However, anything with a strong predator instinct will likely also hunt baby shrimp. You could try those BTi mosquito tabs, although you'd have to first find out if they are harmful to shrimp.
    I didn't even think about mesh, duh lol thanks! And I considered adding my zebra danios but yeah I wouldn't likely get much in fry or shrimp with those voracious boogers lol

    Getting a wider and shallower container would help with cooling, oxygenation, waste control (more space for plants) as well as provide more living space for shrimp. Be prepared for lots of evaporation.
    I think I will look at prices and decide from there, if I do a pool I'd need to do a different spot anyway, I have several places and since I'm not doing my large garden this year a pool could take its place but there's very little in the way of shade in the hottest part of the day there.... More to think about, I could add a shade easily there and I was going to haul my old trampoline material to the dump today... Maybe I can repurpose that over a pool.... I kinda like that idea.

    Definitely maintain aeration, especially at high temperatures. I've heard that water lettuce can be finicky sometimes, so maybe you could toss in a whole bunch of fast growing species and see which ones win out? There's water hyacinth, salvinia, frogbit, red root floater, hornwort, duckweed...
    duckweed, I was cautioned against it. But I'd love a couple handfuls of that as I have heard it's does well in this area on ponds. Anyone have extra duck weed, I'll pay shipping for a good amount of it!

    Are you wondering how to minimize the buildup of dissolved compounds due to evaporation? You could lessen the chance of dangerous levels of mineral buildup by topping up only with RO/DI or rainwater. Ideally you'd be able to change out lots of water frequently, but if you had to pick one, changing out most of the water occasionally will be better than changing out a small amount frequently in terms of reducing mineral buildup.
    more or less yes, I was tired at work and just couldn't figure out how to relay what I was trying to ask. I'm all for large frequent water changes out there if I don't have to run RODI three times a week lol easy stuff outdoors, my garden is set up for me to do whatever I want with the spigot and I have the material to do so.... Garden is sounding better and better if I can figure out a way to put that trampoline cover out for shade.

    One more question... I can go essentially bare bottom without issues I think. I'll have all that moss which I plan to keep down. Do I need a substrate? I was thinking mostly pebbles and small stones. I might have a bag of something else around but if I don't need it I'd rather just let it be....

    And now that I thought about it, what about if I sink the pool a little bit? Would that help keep temps down? It'd help make it easy to keep mosquito net tightly over it. Rig up hose in and hose out spots and everything else could remain undisturbed.

  6. #6

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I run horse troughs all summer, Rubbermaid troughs - 70 and 100 gallons. I put mosquito fish in them, I think they are Gambusia affinis. However, they would probably eat your babies.

    The fish eat all my pests all summer and last just fine, even with horses dropping the level during the day. Water temps stay cool, even on days over 100 degrees F.

    I think it's doable. If you are worried about temps set one up and monitor it. You may be surprised.

  7. #7

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I'm going to stop by our selection of feed stores tomorrow and look at troughs. I have been poking around some horse people here and quite a few do use mosquito fish lol so I'm thinking if I get the guys out before it's hot I have a better chance at them adjusting through the spring season into summer.

  8. #8

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    0 Not allowed!
    There are a lot of videos on outdoor tubbing on Rachel O'Leary's site, as well. Here's just one -

    You can search through her others and maybe get some other pointers. I know one thing she has done is plant some of those "bug eating" plants - pitcher plants.

    Here's a whole list of some of her videos in a series.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...TuHhbNOYh3y3i6
    Last edited by SueD; 04-03-2018 at 10:19 PM.

  9. #9

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Thank you Sue. I watched a bunch of videos and I know I saw a couple of hers. I just struggle because I have huge temp swings here between seasons so I'm torn as to what to do! I'll just wing it this year and see what happens and improve next year.

  10. #10

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by sfsamm View Post
    Alright so, I'm about ready to go on this outdoor bin project I want to try. I've got a nice spot picked out away from where the guys spray for bugs. I'm looking for some input. I'm thinking I have most my supplies gathered.

    So the idea is to bin some RCS and CPDs for the summer and kind of see how it goes. I've read quite a bit but everyone does things their own way, so I'm just looking for opinions and advice.

    1. Should I go ahead and get a bin from the feed store rather than just a large tote? Seems some people have blamed issues on the plastics used with totes but I don't think either is technically considered food safe? I could also likely track down some food grade barrels but I've no idea how they clean them and the depth might be an issue for me to monitor things and for heat issues.

    2. Bugs.... Should I give the endlers a go at controlling them? I seriously don't want a mosquito farm. And dragonflys, what in the world do people do for those larvae? Both get fierce here in spring but they do an aerial spray at the river for the skeeters because of West Nile so they usually get somewhat thin by the time the heat rolls in but dragonflys visit me all summer and I've yet to figure out why since usually I don't keep any standing water around. I do have a bunch of fruit trees though and the stupid nasty earwigs love those, are earwigs any threat other than the obviously going to happen drownings?

    3. Heat! Triple digits in the summer and often staying in the upper 80's overnight. It's another reason I'm thinking a barrel is not my best bet, surface area in a bin would help keep things cool and as dry as it is here evap is going to help too but I'm sure every one will be above their preferences for several weeks.

    4. Filtration will be a couple well cycled and established sponges, the dwarf water lettuce I've managed to finally get going, moss and Riccia from the cull tank I kept. I fully expect the water lettuce to go nuts but considering the bin will be out of direct sunlight and shaded is that bright enough for it to really take off? Should I keep those bubbles on high during heat to keep water circulation and surface agitation?

    5. I actually am doubting myself here and I feel stupid not being confident in what my experience tells me on this. Hose water is still municipal, I'll be dechlorinating large amounts obviously. I use Prime. I can top off as frequently as I can with RODI to keep minerals down but won't be running the setup RODI parameters it'll be tap as I expect probably daily top offs Buuuut I have a someone who has done this before question.... I have a spigot riiight next to where I'm putting this bin and I'm thinking I can set up a float straight from it to the bin to keep it topped off. With my hard water though I'm concerned about the mineral buildup and the chlorine if I do so, am I off base with that concern? It'd be awful nice to run a float, is there a way to deal with those issues? Are they as much an issue outside as inside? I don't want to cover the bin as I want the evap cooling so I don't cook the stock lol.

    6. Please tell me what I don't know I should ask. This isn't a permanent outdoor bin just seasonal and more or less another experiment. Buuuut I don't want to kill things by sheer ignorance, I'd rather at least know I made the wrong choice somewhere. Preferably I won't do either but at least I can learn if I know what may or may not be a good idea.

    7. FYI I'm thinking 30ish (no less) gallons but I'm not sure that's enough volume for the temp swings? Doing a bin it would be easy to go a bit larger if that's recommended.

    8. Lastly, those galvanized water troughs? I know people have kept fish in them but what about shrimp? If it's a no go I'll stick with the plastic/rubber type stuff. What about the larger version of those hard plastic kiddie pools? Evap would be great off a kiddie pool and I think they are $20-$30.
    First of all, I love your project idea and my friend who has a pond with whitecloud minnows has been pressuring me to start a pond like your idea for years. He scored a baby plastic pond 2' deep that I actually am considering. So you could go with one of those. They have different thicknesses and depths, some are sturdier than others. Or you could consider stock tubs. Mine is 100g and made for fish. But......what first came to mind was lining whatever shape material with pond liner. I'm envisioning DIY stone and waterfalls......

    2.My friend with the pond removes them daily and hasn't noticed a huge reduction in fry. I haven't asked if he tried shrimp in the pond though. He also has lots of twigs on the bottom, potted plants and floating plants for cover.

    3. Heat. I can't really comment, but I did plan to position my pond in a shaded area. Perhaps even building a reflective shade could help? To shade out the eastern sun?

    4. Like other's have mentioned, keep aeration going. I will add a small powerhead, probably DIY'd with filter media, but a small powerhead to circulate those bubbles might not be a bad idea.

    5.Rain water 100%. This is a pond-right? Well, I use rain water for my Blackwater tank already. I mix in tap water as needed.

    6. kiddie pool with a liner?
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