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  1. #1

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    Default Ich always in the tank?


    2 Not allowed!
    I'm sure there will be some friendly debate here, I'm curious if there's a way to know for sure.

    Is ich always in the tank?


    I personally don't believe it is, but have nothing scientific. I just have never seen ich myself unless the new fish from the store came down with it too. Always after I buy them! It hasn't happened lately, fortunately I haven't seen ich in my tanks for about 10 years (unfortunately I'm now dealing with more serious internal parasites )

    Being a parasite and having a short life-cycle, I can't understand how it's always in the tank until one fish gets stressed and spreads it in the whole tank. A virus yes, but parasite, I don't understand.
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  2. #2

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    Default


    2 Not allowed!
    I've read that it is, and it isn't, but for the reason you state, my opinion is that it is not, and needs to be introduced.
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  3. #3

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    Default


    2 Not allowed!
    I believe it has to be introduced but I also believe it's fairly easy to do that and thus the need for quarantine.

  4. #4

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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    My stance....I believe that ich is present in *most* aquarium systems. I have had tanks which have remained very stable for many years without any recent additions spring up with ich after a faulty heater went crazy. Do I have science to back that...well no but I have my own personal experience. It is also the experience of many other hobbyists. Now with that said ich is something you have to add at some point in time. I think that it can go dormant for extended periods of time until conditions are right for it to take advantage. I also believe that the ich parasite can be added with anything from another aquarium...be it fish, invert, or plant. Most of us don't Q plants or inverts or dip them. Most of us also share equipment(algae scrapers, python hose) with multiple healthy, established tanks.
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  5. #5

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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    Hmm. I'm ready for discussion. I do believe it's incredibly easy to introduce, and that a fish can carry the parasite under the gills where it is not noticed without it perishing right away. How long? I do not know. Will the ich carried always become out of control inevitably? Don't know.

    Luckily I haven't had it for a decade in my tanks, and having said that I've only ever seen it in QT. I kept my tetras for years in my main tank with no ich issues after I treated them with heat and salt in QT. I also know just because I haven't seen ich in 10 years, It doesn't mean it's not in my system.

    I wanted to hear experiences like yours Jenn, where you have introduced nothing at all except water and fish and there is an outbreak. It was your post that had me thinking about this. I just can't understand how the parasite just appears out of no where. Could it be possible one of the fish were carrying a parasite or two in their gills? It's still a leap for me to believe a fish can carry it for said time and the parasite spreads one day when that fish is stressed or grows old and spreads to all the fish, but it makes more sense to me than "It's in everyone's aquarium". Btw @MCHRKiller I know you didn't say that, just quoting what I've heard from others.

    Seems like an excuse for LFS staff to me when a new hobbyist ends up with ich in their tank from the LFS, but I would like to know everyone's opinions. Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion because as far as I know, none of this has been proved scientifically, just like a lot of things in the hobby.

    Thanks everyone so far for your opinions and experiences.
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  6. #6

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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    I am entitled to believe that it comes in on something be it a fish, plant, etc then it can be dormant in the fish's gills or neck maybe even lurking somewhere in the tank in a hibernation type state till conditions present themselves for an outbreak. Do I think it is in 100% of aquariums...not necessarily but I do think it is present in most.

    To add to my mystery I never share QT materials with my main tanks however my main tanks do share. I also treat all fish for ich in QT so in theory it should all be killed.
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  7. #7

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I also believe it is there more often than not for the same reason. I've went years with zero issues and then get ich. One place I lived back home was famous in my house for tap water changes in spring and fall. If I wasn't prepared or it happened early in the spring (only the spring change) I'd get ich every single time lol. Most of my fish hobby was in the same house and I got really really good at predicting that change lol. It wasn't always the same tank or the same fish and not everyone would get it.
    I only have seen ich on new fish or after a stressful event in a tank. Had a catfish get it in grow out a few days after having his arm torn off by a bully and I'd had them six or so months. My baby sister (13 years younger) hit a tank with a hammer when she was around 8-9 because I'd told her no about something. Catastrophic bucket event and pick the fish that didn't come out the perfectly round hole off the gravel and they were in buckets for several days, got ich right after putting them in their new tank. Heater malfunctions have given me ich a couple times also.
    It may not be that it's always in every tank and I agree that it's very very easy to transfer around. But I do think it can be dormant somehow for long periods or something because I know it's got me out of nowhere more often than not.
    And just to note it definitely doesn't come up every time something stressful happens either. I've had plenty of other disasters over the years that didn't get ich.

  8. #8

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    Default


    3 Not allowed!
    Not possible.
    There is no such thing as a "dormant" Ich parasite. This has been proven by aquatic researchers again and again, yet the fallacy of the "dormant Ich parasite" continues despite evidence to the contrary. It is a myth.
    The Ich parasite is a host -dependent organism; without the host it is unable to continue its life-cycle and dies- there is no dormancy stage. The life-cycle of Ichthyophthirious mulitfilis is highly dependent on water temperature, and the entire life cycle takes from approximately 7 days at 25 C (77 F) to 8 weeks at 6 C (43 F).
    It is possible for fish who survive an outbreak to become immune to re-infection. But, even those fish who have the antibodies that make them resistent to another attack will eventually succumb to the parasite if not treated and the parasite is left to spread.

    Here are a few articles, with references and further links to research on the parasite, that explains the life-cycle of the Ich parasite. All articles stress the introduction of a live parasite as the mode of transmission, do not discuss the possibility of a dormancy stage, and stress the completion of the entire cycle being both temperature and host dependent.

    http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/e...infections.pdf

    http://www.metapathogen.com/ich/

    https://www.myschnauzer.net/ich.html

  9. #9

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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    it's not dormant, it just never left your fish or your tank.

  10. #10

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    0 Not allowed!
    Even if the fish had been treated in QT a few years prior and exhibited no signs of the parasite until some random event happened...that is my rationale for belief it can "hide" in the system whether that is being dormant or just not colonizing in significant enough numbers to create an issue due to fish immunity. Seen that happen to others in the hobby too with similar practices to mine.
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