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  1. #1

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    Exclamation New Tank--Might have some probs


    1 Not allowed!
    All--
    Been a while since i posted, but ive been lurking(promise :) )We have setup a new 75 gal tank and stocked it just in the past couple days with 6 discus, we ordered 8 but two showed up DOA, and the place we ordered them from is offering us no support. I have found lots of bad reviews on the guy, and its pretty obvious he ships stock that frequently dies. First, some specs:

    Specs:
    Tank: 75g
    Filter: eheim pro 4+ 350-->this thing is a beast stock media, no carbon
    Heater: eheim
    Substrate: Caribsea Instant aquarium torpedo beach
    Plants: about 12 shoots of anubias up front.

    Water:
    Source: City water
    Tap PH: 7.2
    Avg tank ph of other tanks i run: ~7.0, no buffers in other tanks(calcium, coral, etc)
    PH of 75g tank: 6.8
    Temp: 82F
    Amm: less than .5
    Trite: 0
    Trate: not readable

    Cycle: media transfer from one of my other tanks. Media was super cycled(year old). Figure between this and the live substrate i should be ok.

    Acclimation: fish were floated for 10 min then water added to bags over 3x10 min intervals. All these guys were SUPER stressed when we got them, so i didn't perform as elongated an acclimation as i would have liked. They were all clearly O2 deprived, had no strength and a few were having to tip a little due to the low water level in the bags. After about 30 min in the nice fresh, clean, water they all perked up. Some were so weak they could barely right themselves.

    Critters: we ordered 8, 2 were DOA, so that leaves 6 in the tank, plus a pleco my wife fell in love with. With 1 exception they seem happy and don't exhibit any outward signs of illness or weakness. All fish have their adult color, and are close to 3" body size

    Issue:
    We currently have one fish that has black on his fins and is clamping them while sticking close to the top corner of the tank. I will attach a pic of him. Wondering what it could be, and how to treat. I dosed the tank prophylactically with melafix once we noticed it. The other critters in the tank seem ok, and are eating thawed bloodworms--we are very lightly feeding them for the moment while the cycle catches up and the fish get used to life. Im actually a bit surprised they are eating given that we've only had them for 2 days now.

    Pic of the fish and tank are attached, all thoughts are welcome. thanks!

    --chris
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by terrapin24h; 03-17-2017 at 12:41 AM.

  2. #2

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    Default


    3 Not allowed!
    Have you checked your water parameters lately? The last tank I set up with cycled media didn't take for some reason and I ended up undergoing a mini cycle. Ammonia and nitrite were present and I lost fish because of it.

    Certainly 2 out of 8 DOA is bad news so you have to wonder what kind of conditions the other 6 went through.
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  3. #3

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    Default


    4 Not allowed!
    Really nice clean tank! ;) And YAY for Discus. I just got some myself.

    Something that grabbed my attention right away was your Ammonia, being less than 0.5 and your Trates are unreadable? First of all, the ammonia could be causing undue stress. I'm actually going through that right now with a discus in QT.

    Ammonia should be "undetectable" = 0. 2nd, why are your trates unreadable? Either your tank is not done cycling or you forgot to shake the heck out of the #2 bottle of nitrate (a lot of us have made that mistake, myself included ;)

    Regarding the black on your fish's fins...I have a white pigeon blood just like yours and the black is "peppering" which is common in the pigeon bloods. Or...were you referring to something else?

    Sorry to hear you received poor fish. I went through the same thing myself. Sending positive thoughts your way :)
    65g neons, black neons, serpae tetras, harlequins, zebra danios, ghost shrimp, cory cats, nerite snails, vampire shrimp

    125g cory cats, nerite snails, flower shrimp, white clouds, angelfish, discus, pleco

  4. #4

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Hey fishlove--

    Yeah, im watching the chems pretty close. It's a new tank and new water, so i think a little settling might have to happen, it very could have to mini cycle. According to my wife(whom is watching the fish closely) this particular critter had no black on his/her fins and it has developed over the course of the day. I know alot of other SA cichs can develop black fin when they are under duress or in crummy water(my BP fins when i got them were so black it looked like their color), as can some africans. What concerns me is the hovering at the top of the tank and the listing he/she seems to be doing.

    Ill have to watch them and see, i was hoping someone would recognize the symptoms. Ive read about the "discus plague" and am concerned it could it given the crum bum we bought the fish from. im gonna stick to liveaquaria from now on.

    --chris

  5. #5

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    Default


    2 Not allowed!
    Hey Chris

    How long has your tank been set up, filled with water, and discus added? I'm assuming this isn't your first rodeo ;) I myself am super new to the hobby so please excuse some of my ignorance.

    The hovering at the top makes me thing about 02 levels. You said he's "listing"?? Do you mean, listless? When was your last WC? Are you new to Discus? I apologize for all the questions. I am however new to Discus myself and have been experiencing a lot as of late so I'm willing to give you my $0.2 if you'll have it ;)

    Have you bought fish from LiveAquaria in the past "with success" or even ordered from them at all? Can I tell you....I bought my 6 Discus from Drs. Foster & Smith recently. They get their fish from LiveAquaria who gets their fish from California. Who in Cali, I don't know, they wouldn't tell me. Within less than 2 weeks of having them, I lost 3 and they couldn't even help me figure out why other than return my money, in store of course. Grrr!!!

    I don't know what kind of experience others have with LiveAquaria but I'm hesitant on ordering more fish from there. Especially Discus!

    Nice to meet you and welcome back!! :)
    65g neons, black neons, serpae tetras, harlequins, zebra danios, ghost shrimp, cory cats, nerite snails, vampire shrimp

    125g cory cats, nerite snails, flower shrimp, white clouds, angelfish, discus, pleco

  6. #6

    Join Date
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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by terrapin24h View Post
    All--
    Been a while since i posted, but ive been lurking(promise :) )We have setup a new 75 gal tank and stocked it just in the past couple days with 6 discus, we ordered 8 but two showed up DOA, and the place we ordered them from is offering us no support. I have found lots of bad reviews on the guy, and its pretty obvious he ships stock that frequently dies.
    Welcome back to activity in AC.
    That is a terrible shame. Really feel for you on that bad experience. Are you able to get to any LFS and pick the discus your self??

    Water:
    Source: City water
    Tap PH: 7.2
    Avg tank ph of other tanks i run: ~7.0, no buffers in other tanks(calcium, coral, etc)
    PH of 75g tank: 6.8
    Temp: 82F
    Amm: less than .5
    Trite: 0
    Trate: not readable
    Firstly how long since you did a water change?? I am assuming all water old and new has had declorinater/prime added to it??
    From the readings sounds like you are going to be set for the Fish in cycle. Make sure to keep testing the tank morning and night, being prepared for WC each time.
    Also do you know you kh and gh readings?

    Issue:
    We currently have one fish that has black on his fins and is clamping them while sticking close to the top corner of the tank. I will attach a pic of him. Wondering what it could be, and how to treat.
    Are there any other signs of issues?? Other than the fin colours? And hanging around a corner?
    For me I would be thinking of stress, mixed with stress from possible bullying from the other discus? Have you seen any signs of them bickering?
    Another side is the water is going through the starts of a cycle.

  7. #7

    Join Date
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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Hey folks- thanks for all the replys-
    We have lost 2 fish today, neither was the one i originally posted about at the start of the thread. They were both looking fine, good color, eating, and no black on the fins. This is not a water quality problem, as the params look good; amm is ~.25 and appears to be falling, trite is 0, and trates are over 0 but below 5(and yes, i know the proper procedure for shaking the reagents and the vile). ph holding at 6.8. CHems look good. When i filled the tank the night before they arrived i dosed 20ml of prime and test the water, all 0 for toxins.

    According to my wife the fish just stop moving and that's it. This seems to be what happens with the discus that are bought from the vendor we used, based on the reviews that google turns up, and his F rating at the BBB.

    We have dosed the tank with melafix and Kordon's ich treatment. I am toying with doing a water change, but fear if it's stress related that will make things worse.

    Again to restate, this is fresh water, and the fish have been in the tank less than 3 days now. There are no critters in the tank except the discuss and pleco that were all added at the same time.

    There arent alot of good lfs here on the east side of the state, the two that there are -fishroom- want nothing to do with ordering discuss. I may have to try Charlotte and see if any there will deal with them. The issue of course is that if this is some kind of parasite, virus, or bacterium its now in the tank with all 100pds of sand, 75gal of water, and all the decor--not to mention the 3d foam background. I fear all the fish will be dead by tomorrow

    --chris

  8. #8

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    0 Not allowed!
    20 ml of Prime??

    That is the amount one would use to treat a 200 gallon tank.
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  9. #9

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    1 Not allowed!
    But prime can be dosed at up to 5 times normal dosage to detoxify ammonia and nitrite.

    It really does sound like poor quality fish from a poor quality vendor, which is a real shame. Sorry you have to go through this.
    300 gallon mega tank: sailfin pleco, clown loaches, silver dollars, roseline sharks, congo tetras, new world cichlids
    125 gallon office tank: Africian cichlids, synodontis catfih
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  10. #10

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Brhino View Post
    But prime can be dosed at up to 5 times normal dosage to detoxify ammonia and nitrite.

    It really does sound like poor quality fish from a poor quality vendor, which is a real shame. Sorry you have to go through this.
    According to Seachem, this is true...but with ultra-sensitive fish like discus, I wouldn't risk it.
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