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Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. Default Cliff... I need your plumbing and pump advice


    0 Not allowed!
    OK so I am trying to really get a grasp on calculating head loss. I want to figure out how much I actually have on my system to accurately size a new pump.

    The problem is there are multiple pipe sizes and fittings. The current pump is a mag24 which is ok. I get 600 in the DT and 300 to the fuge plus a recirculating line for adjustments that is wide open so assuming the same as the fuge at 300.

    So what's the problem you ask... Startup issues with the mag. It does not reliably start after I turn it off. I replaced the impeller assembly and it still has the issue. Now I am looking for a pump to replace it. I guess I will call it luck that the flow just so happened to work out.
    I was pushing 900gph through the DT but felt that was too high and dialed it back as far as I could without restricting the main ball valve on the return line.

    How can I best figure this out to match a different pump to the flow of the mag?? I assume it is to calculate the total head loss? I am wanting to go with a different more energy efficient pump. I even considered drilling the sump for an external but figured out the sump is all tempered glass.

    I asked another fellow and he Saigon 14-15' of head loss but I know that cannot be correct. I know for a fact that the weir on the overflow was at 1/4" deep on a 40" weir which calculated to 16gpm or 980gph. In addition to 300 to the fuge and the recirc line 2/3 open.

    According to Danner the mag 24 at 14' would be < 600gph. Using the total flow that I know I am getting I estimate the head loss at about 9'. This would put the mag24 at about 1300gph. So how does one match a new pump? Do I just look for something that matches the flow rates of the mag across the board? I know I am probably way over thinking this but at the same time I don't want to end up with too little of a pump.

    Here are the components of my return line only this does not include the fuge and additional port for future use. Any help is greatly appreciated.

    Vertical Piping:
    1-1/2" 4'4"

    Horizontal Piping
    1-1/2" 2'6"
    3/4" 6'0"

    1.5" Fittings
    1 -Ball Valve
    1 -Union
    2 -Tee
    2 -90's
    2 -45's

    3/4" Fittings
    3 -Ball Valves
    3 -Unions
    7 -90's
    7 -45's
    Mike
    120g Mixed Reef In Progress
    120g Reef Journal
    55g Freshwater - Out of Service
    My 55g Tank Remodel Project
    72g Bowfront -Out of Service

  2. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Yeah I think you're overthinking this. If it worked before, then just get another pump with same specs. If you're adding/subtracting to your plumbing, different story. Curious why you're using two different sizes?
    25 Gal - Tropical
    Custom made Wet/Dry/Sump Filter System, AquaClear 20 Powerhead, RenaCal Excel 300 Heater, artificial plants
    Fish - 7 Blackskirt Tetras, German Blue Ram, Bulldog Pleco, Assassin snail.
    "Plans go wrong for lack of advice; many advisers bring success." King Solomon.
    Pictures of my 10 Gal Sump Filtration project

  3. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ijankrom View Post
    Yeah I think you're overthinking this. If it worked before, then just get another pump with same specs. If you're adding/subtracting to your plumbing, different story. Curious why you're using two different sizes?
    I have 1.5" return from the pump to the top of the tank where it splits to 3 3/4" return lines. Here is a pic - http://mramsey.homeip.net/img/reef/bean/IMG_6528.JPG

    I was just afraid that I would select another pump and it would fall short but I am thinking about the Sicce Syncra HF10 or HF12. But since i don't really know the true head loss it could be off.
    Mike
    120g Mixed Reef In Progress
    120g Reef Journal
    55g Freshwater - Out of Service
    My 55g Tank Remodel Project
    72g Bowfront -Out of Service

  4. #4

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Calculating your head loss is not all that hard. I can do that for you once I am home from work

    How much flow to you want going through your sump ?

    Will / do you have different flow areas in your sump ? By that I am asking if your return pump section is in the middle and being fed by a return section as well as a refugium both with different GPH

    Do you have space to set-up a external return pump and can you drill your sump to accommodate one ?
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  5. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    Calculating your head loss is not all that hard. I can do that for you once I am home from work

    How much flow to you want going through your sump ?

    Will / do you have different flow areas in your sump ? By that I am asking if your return pump section is in the middle and being fed by a return section as well as a refugium both with different GPH

    Do you have space to set-up a external return pump and can you drill your sump to accommodate one ?
    Thanks Cliff,

    I am targeting 600gph in the DT. The sump is a center return so 300gph to the five from the return line. My skimmer is pushing 700gph but I think that's a high number.

    The only way I can do external is to go up and over the sump. The glass is all tempered so drilling is out.
    Mike
    120g Mixed Reef In Progress
    120g Reef Journal
    55g Freshwater - Out of Service
    My 55g Tank Remodel Project
    72g Bowfront -Out of Service

  6. #6

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    OK, external return pump is out then as that would make things a lot more complex than it's worth for your set-up

    Are you open to increasing the flow through the sump to 700 GPH ?

    The reason why I ask is that will allow your skimmer to work at it's best (match the flow of the sump to your flow of your skimmer)
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  7. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Sure can. It was at about 980 and that was too high I think. At the moment I have the loop and refugium supplies open 100% and I am at 600.
    Last edited by mrramsey; 05-18-2014 at 01:45 PM.
    Mike
    120g Mixed Reef In Progress
    120g Reef Journal
    55g Freshwater - Out of Service
    My 55g Tank Remodel Project
    72g Bowfront -Out of Service

  8. #8

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Just to confirm, you have the return line split off to feed water back into the display tank and the refugium as well
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  9. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Yes if you look at the pic above there is a tee just below the main valve on the return. There is a 1/2" line to the fuge and a 1/2" line that just circulates back to the sump. At the top of the DT the 1.5" line splits into 3 returns.
    Mike
    120g Mixed Reef In Progress
    120g Reef Journal
    55g Freshwater - Out of Service
    My 55g Tank Remodel Project
    72g Bowfront -Out of Service

  10. #10

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Sorry Mike, but I can't see the pic, could be due to me using my phone right now

    However, I would calculate your head loss to be at ~1900 to ~2000 GPH. Your mag 24 should be OK for this, but you could also ague that it is a little underpowered for this set-up at 2400 gph. I would suggest up-grading to t a slightly larger pump as it would seam the mag 24 did not stand up very well for you.

    I would suggest you find a pump with minimum of 2800 to 2900 GPH (assuming 0 head hight). There are two challenges with getting a submersible pump with that much flow, one being the heat being produced and the second is the size of these pumps can get pretty big.

    I would suggest looking into a DC powered speed wave return pump model DC12000. It has 3200 gph but fully controllable to your to your ~2400 gph requirements. This extra capacity would be needed should you ever want to add a media reactor, frag grow-out tank, or what ever you may want to add latter on. The DC10000 could also work, but you would be running it a full capacity which I never like as this can cause extra wear-n-tear and heat from the pump.

    These pumps will also use about 60% less power than a similar sized mag pump which will help to keep the monthly bills lower

    http://reefbuilders.com/2013/07/25/speedwave-dc-pumps/
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

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