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  1. #1

    Default Breeding for color


    0 Not allowed!
    As I have casually began breeding my guppies and endlers, I have found the lack of good breeding info to be a pain.

    When I bought my first female guppies, I decided to buy yellow bodied fish to see if the color would be dominant and passed along to the young. With each batch of fry (unknown father) they indeed turned out yellow.

    After learning that guppies can have up to 6 batches of fry from one encounter, I figured that I wouldn't pay any attention to the newborns for signs of being endler shaped.

    About month 4, the girls started throwing out grey fry. I figured that this was part of whatever genes the unknown father passed along.

    One of the people I sold fry to updated me that indeed the fry were growing up with some endler markings. This was quite a surprise to me at the time.

    I kept 3 females from a previous batch and they all have similar yellow coloring as their mother although 2 don't have the bright yellow in the tail, but the body color is consistent. As the mother was a juvenile when I got her, I couldn't be 100% if she was pregnant when I got her or not.

    To date she has had 3 batches, so I'm still a few off before I am 100% sure of my endler boys being the father.


    After that long explanation, here is my question. Can yellow be a dominant color? Is it possible to have that color passed along to the male fry or will the features of the males follow the father?

    My thought is to eventually get yellow bodied black bar endler males.

    I'm way to busy to be a serious breeder, but the idea of having little yellow endler males is just pretty cool to me.

    As my current boys have been in the tank 8 months (so I'm figuring 9 or 10 months old), I know that they don't have too much longer to live (they live about 1 year from what I'm told).

    So is my hope of getting the yellow to pass along possible or will it always be a random chance?

    This is how the females turn out:

    Original mother:



    Daughter 1:



    Daughter 2/3 (both look the same) but not with same bright yellow in tail.



    As you can see, the yellow body gets passed down well, but I haven't waited to see if any of the yellow fry have turned out to be boys yet. I have only chosen a few female fry and sold all the rest not waiting long enough to know what happens.

  2. #2

    Join Date
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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    That is the conundrum. A lot of the male genes go into the male offspring in my experience. If you want that yellow body, I would look for a strongly yellow body male to mate out and have them in their own small tank.

    I dont know how familiar you are with punnent squares but the basic approach gives a percentage of the genes you need.

    Line breeding or even taking those three girls there and putting them with one select male should yeild you a good 60 fry over the course of 6mo or so. You could save all 60 in a smallish tank and see the percentages of how they mature and then determine how true your yellow breeds.

    Also - in short - any color can be dominant. (again my experience, not based on sheer fact) I have seen purple be the dominant.
    FW: 1 45gal, 1 40gal, 3 10gal, 3 30gal all community tanks of different species
    Sw: 1 55gal, 1 30gal show, 1 29gal show, 1 20gal and 2 10's

  3. #3

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    The only issue that I have never seen or heard of a yellow bodied endler. I've seen a few on aquabid with some yellow markings, but the body is still grey.

    I don't know if it is even possible to change the body color. From what I've read, some colors (not always listed) are more dominant than others. If you mix a red male guppy with a yellow female, the odds are that more fry will be born red. At that point, you mix red to red until the line breeds true. That's simple enough to understand.

    Since I'm looking to completely change a color from grey to yellow, I cannot find any info that it has been done.

    Of course at some point in the past someone had to start with wild guppies and create all the fancies that we see now, but the info isn't well shared.

    The whole idea of selective breeding is fascinating to me.
    Steve
    50 Gallon -
    Endlers | Guppies | Blue Eyed Rice | Celestial Pearl Danios | Threadfin Rainbows | Peacock Gudgeon | Bronze Cory's
    Albino Cory's | Nerite Snails | Ghost Shrimp

  4. #4

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Here is a link to an image of the closest that I've been able to find of a yellow endler, but it has lost the other markings that regular endlers have:

    http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...le_resized.jpg
    Steve
    50 Gallon -
    Endlers | Guppies | Blue Eyed Rice | Celestial Pearl Danios | Threadfin Rainbows | Peacock Gudgeon | Bronze Cory's
    Albino Cory's | Nerite Snails | Ghost Shrimp

  5. #5

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    If you have a fish that displays patches of a color it is usually possible to line breed them to be solid that color. It does however require a lot of patience and is therefore seldom done. A lot of attempts are deemed failures simply because people give up to soon. It can take 10-15 years of selective line breeding to develop a new solid bodied fish.

    An example of this is the gold black molly that people have been working with for a long time and where most strains still show a lot of black. There are however atleast one strain out of checkoslovakia (dont remember which part) that breeds almost true and where most fish is 100% gold. I have seen this strain in European magazines and in person but can not seem to find any photos online of it. I know one of the breeders had a fire so it is possible the strain was wiped out.
    Do as I say. Not as I do.

  6. #6

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    William that would explain my striped black molly that is striped gold and black, and also the latest batch of fry that I mistaken for albino's at first but really that lighter color as well.
    Current tanks:
    37G FW - 3 Pearl Gourami, 4 Black Mollies, approximately 20+ Molly Fry, 5 Assassin Snails | 10G Planted FW - 14 Molly Fry, rocks, DW and an Anubias Nana - journal
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    How to cycle without fishies!

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
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    It's EOTW Beer Time! - KevinVA Nobody likes to drinl alone :) - steeler58 Back at you,  good sir! - Compass Here's to Lee's 5000 and Guava Flavored Whiskey! - Taurus Why drink alone, when a Sandz is nearby? - KevinVA 
    Sorry to hear of your loss, it always sucks to lose fish. - mommy1 Wish it was a real one, sorry for your loses :( - steeler58 So sorry about your fish! - SeaLady Here is pie. - mommy1 for the one you lost :o( - fishmommie 
    No Message - Fishhook Bottoms up! - Slaphppy7 Thanks, this one is on me - mommy1 Here's to 4,000 posts :) - steeler58 T.G.I.F.! - Slaphppy7 
    TGIF and here's to good whiskey :-) - Taurus Thanks for the rep :) - rebecca_finny pizza for all.  I finished my book today!!! - fishmommie thank you for your help and advice - showmebutterfly Even Monday's are better with severum - showmebutterfly 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Agree 100% with William. You have to basically hatch out a years worth of fry for 5 fish... selectively breed those 5 into 60 more... take the 10 or so that turn out how you want and selectively breed those into a morph that eventually breeds nothing but that line... yeah patience... and a few tanks...
    FW: 1 45gal, 1 40gal, 3 10gal, 3 30gal all community tanks of different species
    Sw: 1 55gal, 1 30gal show, 1 29gal show, 1 20gal and 2 10's

  8. #8

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Well luckily I do have plenty of patience

    I know that I'm going to have to start keeping some male fry at some point in the near future. Right now I have a few yellow fry swimming in the tank that are about 2 weeks old, so I'll be able to see what happens in a few more weeks once I can determine if they are boys and girls.
    Steve
    50 Gallon -
    Endlers | Guppies | Blue Eyed Rice | Celestial Pearl Danios | Threadfin Rainbows | Peacock Gudgeon | Bronze Cory's
    Albino Cory's | Nerite Snails | Ghost Shrimp

  9. #9

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Cygnus, look up some of lotsoffish's stuff online, he does selective breeding on guppys mainly, but messes around with a few other types

  10. #10

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Triton View Post
    Cygnus, look up some of lotsoffish's stuff online, he does selective breeding on guppys mainly, but messes around with a few other types
    He is one of the few that I keep an eye out for on aquabid. Swampriver is another that has amazing mixes.
    Steve
    50 Gallon -
    Endlers | Guppies | Blue Eyed Rice | Celestial Pearl Danios | Threadfin Rainbows | Peacock Gudgeon | Bronze Cory's
    Albino Cory's | Nerite Snails | Ghost Shrimp

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