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Results 11 to 20 of 26
  1. #11

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    2 Not allowed!
    I’m not too sure I understand the whole point to this thread

    The answer here is simple:

    1-Be a responsible pet owner. Whether that is fish, cats birds, reptiles….. it doesn’t matter. If you can’t properly care for them, don’t get them in the first place. Govern your own actions and set the example to encourage others to do the same.

    2-Influeance change with your wallet. Don’t purchase anything from sellers that you believe may be acting in an unethical way. This alone can most likely impact more change than voluntary standards organizations like MAC as it can hit a company’s bottom line. Once again, govern your own actions and set the example to encourage others to do the same.

    Let’s all be careful here not to turn this thread into a political debit about international or government policies in addition to ethical standards that we feel should be set and followed.
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  2. #12

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Yea I've seen a few episodes of tanked where the stocking is horrible, I am led to believe they at least cycle the filters before the install though...

    Just wish they'd do a special on that. Talk about how picking fish isn't just about the best looking fish that you like but more about compatibility

  3. #13

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Trillianne View Post
    Careful there, you are calling for activism!
    Not really. I'm not going out on strike or petitioning my government to change things. I'm also against certifications for such a cause. I'm just advocating for informed consumerism. Telling a company that a product they're selling is immoral or inadequate isn't activism, it's just giving them feedback.

    This whole certification idea sounds good on paper, but #1, how do you enforce it, and #2, how could you enforce it without enabling costs to rise, so that the hobby isn't impacted in a negative way?

    You would need live video feeds or an association representative to be on hand, in order to prove that your fish catching methods are up to the certification standards. That gets costly, as representatives would have to be flown all over the world... unless you could get world-wide recognition with on-sight representatives in nearly every country. Doubt a movement that big would ever get off the ground. Then a report would have to be made on the rep's findings, a review board would have to look at the evidence and a certification would be distributed. That being said, would these people be volunteers or require payment? Who knows... What I do know, is that running an association that would garner any type of world recognition and respect in the trade like this would be costly (though, you could get partial funding by the government if it's a non-profit - thank you taxpayers) and the production of certifications and the process used to award them would add to that cost.

    That cost would probably lead to local fish stores having to pay a premium for the certification(s) and they'd probably require membership. Costs for the stores/breeders will go up, so the costs of fish will go up. Consumers would then respond.

    This has already been said, but I figured I'd lay it all out there for the reasoning behind the cost increase.
    Adventures in Aquaria - The KevinVA Story

    When in doubt, ask yourself... W.W.L.S (What would Lee Say)?

    Have a fish problem? Fill out and post this completed questionnaire in the General Aquarium Forum, when you start a new thread.

  4. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    I’m not too sure I understand the whole point to this thread
    I personally feel it is an important topic. We (Americans) drive the worldwide demand for ornamental aquatic life. As you rightfully point out, we can drive change with our wallet. I am wondering if this is enough. There is a possibility that our hobby might be regulated in a way it'll considerably restrict our choice.

  5. #15

    Join Date
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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinVA View Post
    Not really. I'm not going out on strike or petitioning my government to change things. I'm also against certifications for such a cause. I'm just advocating for informed consumerism. Telling a company that a product they're selling is immoral or inadequate isn't activism, it's just giving them feedback.
    Activism is not a dirty word, nor does it require the government involvement.

    Activism consists of efforts to promote, impede, or direct social, political, economic, or environmental change, or stasis.
    If I boycott a store, I am an activist - even if I'm just doing it myself without encouraging others to join me, I have taken an action in the hopes of a change. If I post flyers on the store door because they make no effort to improve conditions, then I am an an activist. Activism is merely the action of following through on what you advocate. Meaning, if you advocate for not buying dyed fish, and then shop with intent to not buy dyed fish... you are an activist. Its the walking the walk part.


    So let's get back to the issue of certification.

    Cost should not be the only consideration in value. Quality should certainly be a leg in the value equation. Knowledge to make informed choices should also be a leg in the value equation.

    If Store A sells the cheapest fish, and Store B is slightly more but sells certified fish, there is still value in shopping at Store B. The value of knowing you aren't getting a fish caught with poison that might thrive. What may not be seen in that sticker price here.. is that Store A may end up costing me more money in trying to care for/replace a poor specimen than Store B would in selling me a healthier fish.

    If Store A sells the cheapest fish, and Store B is slightly more but Store A has poorly informed employees and chronic issues with their tanks, there is certainly a value in shopping Store B that has more knowledgeable employees and better maintained stock. And in fact, again here, the upfront cost may be more, but the cost over time may very well be less.

    Certification is one of those things that has a value that may well be worth the cost. It does not have to be mandated, it has been and thus far continues to be, a voluntary choice of the store owner, the importers, and consumer within the market. (With the caveat that in some places there may be mandates for exportation, but this is not an industry wide standard) Certification does not need to be government mandated, to still be a useful, valid and valuable tool.

    A rather significant portion of a great many things that overall have the best value and actual least cost, do not have the lowest sticker price upfront.

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy85 View Post
    5. Sadly not everyone will ever change, but education and the internet will help
    Thank you for your answer. Education will help. If you had a chance to, what would you do?

  7. #17

    Default


    2 Not allowed!
    I just choose to not support dyed fish or shops that have poor quality.

    I personally buy most of my fish and plants from other people in the hobby that breed the fish themselves

  8. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I do however believe that the fish keepers and the collectors should be looked on differently here. Collectors / commercial entities do the most damage and is those who need to work hardest to become more responsible. Fish keepers on the other hand might have a hard time knowing the wild condition of fish populations. I do think they should try, but most of that responsibility has to be placed on the trade due the commercial entities larger resources.
    Yes indeed, William. But we are part of the trade. 4 out 5 pet stores i have been to do not know where the aquatic life they sell come from.
    Let me provide this example. Toxic chemicals in paint, toys, plastic bottles ... if a group of consumers did not pressure large retailers like Target to stop selling these products, manufacturers would not have moved towards safer solutions.

  9. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by fishmommie View Post
    I agree with William and Hardy. And I think another important aspect of fishkeeping is educating new aquarists. I go out of my way to help friends or even strangers when I see them standing bewildered in a fish store. I can't make a difference on a large scale but I can do little things to increase awareness.
    This is very noble of you. I do as well. There is probably a lot that can be done to better educate new aquarists. Unfortunately, for the most part, they start their journey at mass retail pet stores, where the staff is less than competent.

  10. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by philthy View Post
    but at the same time when I go to the LFS they always have a new variety of SW fish and eels and rays etc. So there must be a pretty big turn over in stock.
    Thanks, i have noticed that as well where i go get my fish.

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