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Results 1 to 10 of 49
  1. Default wall of text containing ich and cycling questions


    0 Not allowed!
    Background story/info
    my fish have had ich for a bout a month, every time it goes away it just keeps coming back within a few days, i have a gold ram and ember tetras . it started with the rams , i bought two from a fishstore not knowing what ich was, when i was pointing to the ones i wanted the worker would say " you dont want that one he has ich on him". hearing this my mind instantly went to the childs word for something gross, or unwanted as in 'ick' or 'icky' , thinking he was referring to algae or maybe old food stuck to them that I wasnt seeing, idk... I was too stoked about actually finding a store that sold ram cichlids. Soooo i bought them, not knowing they were actually infected until they were covered in spots to the point where it was impossible to miss which was about a day after buying them, so i started treating them with Jungle ich gaurd that same day and doing water changes everyday afterward and treating all the new water i would put in the tank with more ich guard like the bottle said to do, i raised the temperature to what i feel is the highest temp my embers will bare and thats 80f, haven't wanted to go over this because when i look at descriptions of ember tetras the temp range that they would have listed next to the pics was around 70-80F in all the sites i looked at. anyways over the past month its been coming back on and off, i have been treating yet It still comes back the day after I stop medicating and half of my tank is dead because of this, either becuase of the ich or stress from the medicine.
    the tap water at my house is high in ph and general hardness so 3/4 of the water change has to be distilled water, everyday, so far its come to about 70$ in water and ick gaurd over the past month (thats like 3x the price i paid for ALL the fish in my aquarium ). im wondering why this just isnt going away. the guy at the store told me today that i could try vacuuming my gravel and or setup another aquarium to be a sort of 'hospital' for them that way when im doing water changes it will be alot less water i need to buy
    it seems like my only option is to take them out and treat them in a smaller tank while i try to sanitize my actual aquarium because it feels like the ich is coming back so often because the actual tank is infested, so my plan was to buy a vacuum and a 10gal tank , take the fish out and put them in the smaller aquarium, treat the 10gal with ick guard then vacuum my other tank and treat that aswell, only now I will be able to just do water changes in my main tank with tap water which should save me alot of money.

    this is just a plan, lmk what you guys think I should do
    and heres parameters from my last water test(3-4 days ago), it was done with a testing strip so it isn't very accurate
    ph -6.5-7.5
    gh -0-30
    kh -0-30
    no3 -0-20
    no2- 0-.5
    and my tank is 55 gallons
    Actual questions
    1) will this plan of a 'hospital' tank be to stressful for the sick fish?
    2) (If the answer to question 1 is no) should I move only the sick fish or all the fish
    3) can I use some sand and water from an already cycled tank to skip or aid the cycling process in this new 'hospital' tank

    thats all,
    Im planning on doing this all tomorrow so the sooner you reply the better
    thanks in advance

  2. #2

    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    OK, your water values are meaningless, might want to have it tested by someone with a liquid test

    Can I ask why you're treating your tank with meds and after that changing a load of water so you remove the meds again?
    If you don't have any inverts in that tank give this a go: http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod...Cupramine.html
    Personally I'd supplement any treatment with some Indian Almond leaf.

    Ich has three stages of development, the infection of the fish, a free swimming larvae and a cyst lying dormant in the bottom. Only in the free swimming stage are the vulnerable to anything. This lifecycle speeds up when you increase the temperature. If you can keep your tank at 32C for 48 hours you will even kill the parasite entirely (but also quite a few fish) So, set the temp as high as you dare to go and dose the water with meds. As soon as the white dots on the fish release the larvae and die those larvae will enter a very hostile environment and never make it to the cyst stage.

    Now, you can keep your stock in a smaller bare quarantine tank, use an existing sponge for it or just do daily changes. Treat that with meds. The main tank let it run hot for several days, as hot as your heater will allow you to run it.

    As to distilled water, if you use so much of it I'd say buy a simple reverse osmosis system, it will soon pay back for itself.

    Now, once this is under control have a critical look at your tank and stock, a bad setup with stressed fish is way more vulnerable to ich.

  3. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I am taking 25% of the water out everyday because as i was told "the water is infected" and needs to be changed and i said in the top i actually am treating all the new water i put back in the tank and by that i meant treating it with medicine ;) im not sure if you thought i was just adding medicine in once then diluting the treated tank water after but that's not the case, simply following directions on the bottle
    and i have been told that unhappy fish are more vulnerable but the fish were fine until the already infected rams entered the tank, then it spread. the tank is large 55 gal the filter is made for a 50 gal tank the water is aerated i feed them once a day with this omega_super_color_flakes_5lb.jpg, plenty of caves and a good amount of live plants (though i am working on getting more) , my pleco takes care of algae and the cory sucks up fallen food
    etc
    all the fish were happy before the rams came,
    anyways the fact is that the ich is here and it wont leave, the more i read the more I think the problem was not vacuuming, could that be the case?
    and as for the main concern I have about this new tank idea, will the water be cycling or cycled enough to not be harmful if i add sand/ water or a filter from an already cycled tank to this smaller tank ?
    and what does indian almond leaf do and where do you find that?
    Last edited by Ras; 10-21-2013 at 09:17 AM.

  4. #4

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    "the water is infected".... ok....the water contains free swimming ich. Removing 25% is going to have 0 impact.
    Vacuuming only plays a small role. You will always miss a few cysts and have several hunderd free swimming parasites days later. Have you actually read about the parasite? http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthirius

    You don't have time to worry about niceties like cycling, if you don't have a usable sponge then do a change every day, you need to act now! Skipp the sand, keep it bare and dark.

    Indian almond leaf kills a lot of parasites before they can become an issue, it's found on ebay.

  5. #5

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    "the water is infected".... ok....the water contains free swimming ich. Removing 25% is going to have 0 impact.
    Vacuuming only plays a small role. You will always miss a few cysts and have several hunderd free swimming parasites days later. Have you actually read about the parasite? http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthirius

    You don't have time to worry about niceties like cycling, if you don't have a usable sponge then do a change every day, you need to act now! Skipp the sand, keep it bare and dark.

    Indian almond leaf kills a lot of parasites before they can become an issue, it's found on ebay.

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    to be completely honest, everything i have read about this, literally everything including the link you sent me suggests that water changes are beneficial, i was told by many people to do a 25% water change every day then treat all the new water entering the tank when treating with malchite green. this is also what is on the instructions of the bottle ... you are the first person to tell me it will have 0 impact x.x

  7. #7

    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    The reason for water changes not have a very big impact (if any) for ick is that the virus is free-swimming for only a very short period of it's total life span.

    Which ever method you choose to treat the ick, make sure to sick with it for a week or two after all signs of the virus are gone

    There are two links about cycling below in my sig should you like further info about that.
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  8. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I guess that makes sense
    maybe the directions are trying to get me to burn through the medicine faster... it worked.. im on my third bottle x.x
    if thats the case then maybe what was stressing the fish out to where the ich kept coming back was the everyday water changes??? the change in water parameters even if it was slight plus the disruption of going in the tank everyday
    ......
    so now i feel like a murderer... thanks for the info guys, gonna setup the quarantine tank tomorrow and treat them aswell as the main tank .... hopefully not kill anymore innocent lives . thanks for the advise and links

    editing one more question in
    is a bristlenose pleco ok to be treated with the other fish or is it considered too weak like a catfish or invertebrate
    Last edited by Ras; 10-21-2013 at 11:38 AM.

  9. #9

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    You;ll have to treat the bristlenose or euthanize it if it's infected. Not doing anything is not a real option

  10. Default


    4 Not allowed!
    I have successfully treated ich with 0 medications and 0 salt using only heat. It's the least invasive and harmful to the fish and if done right you'll never get the ich back as long as you don't introduce infected fish into your tank.
    Here's what I'd do in your case.
    1) do a HUGE (as in 90% if possible) water change to remove as much of the medication as possible.
    2) over a 2 day period gradually increase the water temp to 86F then leave it there. In 5 to 7 days you should see the last ich spot .Use a magnifying glass to observe the fish to make certain there are no parasites on them.
    3) AFTER you'd seen the last spot leave the temp at 86F for another 7 - 10 days. This is critical to kill the larva and free swimmers in the tank. If you don't keep the temp at 86F for those additional days, the ich is just going to come back again.
    4) During this time, change your tank water every 3 days by 50% taking care to replace the water with water at 86F. Also do partial vac of the substrate when you do the water changes.
    5) Run an airstone or bubbler all of this time to help oxygenate the water. If you don't have an airstone then lower the water level by an inch or more and use your spray bar or the flow from your HOB to create aggitation on the water surface. This will help with oxygenation as the heat will deplete oxygen.
    6) after the 7 - 10 day period is over, slowly lower the heat to 78 (or whereever you keep it) and do another large water change.
    The ich should be gone and you shouldn't get it back again.
    Good luck
    30 g FW planted:corys, ABNP, blue angel, harleys, zebra danios, pair kribs, & nerite snails
    15 g FW planted: crown tail betta, neons, snails
    90 g FW semi planted: EBJD, congos, apple snails
    90 Gal Journal: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ad.php?t=93939
    Fishless cycling: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ead.php?t=5640
    Cycling with fish: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ad.php?t=36492

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