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Thread: Ich problems
10-06-2013, 10:07 PM #1
Well I noticed my black neons had white specs on them. so now I need to treat for ich! Lame just when things were going good. I read this post http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php and can't decide witch is the best way to go. when I had it in my 10 gal tank I used Nox-ich it has Sodium Chloride and Malchite green. That I got from my buddy that use to work at a pet store and it worked only lost one fish. But turned my silicone blue. If I use this what should I do with my filters so i don't lose BB? I also have salt and a heater would this be better? Also one more ? when should I start before the white specs are off the fish or after I notice they are off if they even do that? tomorrow is my day off so I can spend the whole day dealing with what I need to.
10-06-2013, 10:13 PM #2Senior Member Red tailed catfish
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
From other's experiences, heat & salt work well - a gradual increase in the temp is recommended to like 83-84 degrees (I think).
The parasite isn't killable until it falls off the fish and is in the substrate multiplying. It isn't vulnerable while it's hosting itself on a fish.
If you read about the lifecycle of the parasite, you'll understand why higher temps are needed - after a certain temp they stop multiplying.
Once you no longer see the spots, its important to keep up the treatment for a few more weeks to get any that are still in the substrate - I lost a few fish several years ago from this - it invades the gills and suffocates the fish so quick treatment is important.
I used meds though because I had fish that would have been stressed in higher temps.
Higher temps & salt won't harm your beneficial bacteria but some meds might affect what you have in the filter.
10-06-2013, 10:33 PM #3
Thanks i'll try the heat and salt first my temp is at 81 now and my heater is 100 watt for up to 40 gallons but seems to heat the water good. if I need to I could take the 50 watt out of my ten but then I won't have one for it. Wife will kill me if I need to run to wally world and get another heater but heck shes killed me many times in 27 yrs lol.
10-06-2013, 10:55 PM #4
As the author mentions in the cited article, not all fish can handle the treatments suggested, so keep that in mind; rift lake cichlids are hard water fish, so salt tolerance is higher with them. As he also noted, raising the temperature to 86F or higher will likely kill the ich without any other additive, and this is certainly the safest treatment if the fish species can manage with heat.
You mention Black Neons...are there any other fish species? The Black Neon, Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi, has a temperature range up to 81F for normal maintenance, so it should be OK with 86F+ for a week or so. I would raise the temperature above 85F and leave it there for 7-10 days, then turn the heaters down and let the tank naturally return to normal. Do a major water change prior to raising the temperature, and raise the water temp a bit towards this with the replacement water, but not completely as it will be too much too quickly.
Do not use salt with characins, they have a very low level of tolerance. If medication is necessary, I use CopperSafe with sensitive fish, plus raising the temperature to what they can tolerate.
One must always remember that every aspect of treatment is going to add stress to the fish. Raising the heat is somewhat stressful. Using any chemical preparation is even more stressful for most fish, be it salt, copper or whatever. Since fish contract ich solely due to stress in the first place, they are obviously stressed to begin with, and every additional element of stress during the attempt to cure them is significant. Reducing feeding won't hurt, and avoiding any stress around the tank. Increase water circulation as someone mentioned.
Last edited by Byron; 10-06-2013 at 10:58 PM.Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
10-06-2013, 11:26 PM #5
With the salt treat meant how many time do you need to add salt? I have been looking and couldn't find anywhere that tells.
My fish are
1 red tail shark
1 golden Gourami
2 sunburst platys
11 neon tetras
3 glowlight tetras
5 black neon tetras
1 rubberlip pleco
8 tiger barbs
3 small crabs
Also do I need another heater? Mine is a 100 watt 40 gal and I have a 55 gal? this was in my 10 gal before I got the 55gal
Last edited by Freashfish; 10-06-2013 at 11:30 PM.
10-07-2013, 12:30 AM #6
Yes, you need another heater appropriate to the size of your tank. And you'll need the 2nd heater to help keep the temp at a steady 86F. Make sure you submerge the heater in the tank unplugged for at least a half an hour so it can acclimate or you'll never get it up to 86F
I have successfully treated ich and never had it come back using only heat - No salt. You don't want to use salt in your tank. invertebrates (your crab) and scaleless fish (your pleco) will not tolerate the salt and it will most likely kill them.
Here's how I did it and know several others here have too because this is where I got the advice.
Up the temp to 86F (do this over 2 days time). Start immediately.
After you see the LAST white spot on all of the fish, do not turn the heat down. Leave it at 86F for 7 - 10 more days. this is because after the ich protozoan has fallen off the fish, it can still live in your gravel and in the water for another 7 days.
Also - make frequent water changes (like 50% every 3 days) taking care to refill with water that conditioned with something like Prime or Aqua safe and is 86F going into the tank.
Add an airstone. The heat depletes the water of oxygen and the airstone will help keep the water oxygenated.
Don't get anxious. Just stay the course. Ich starts in the gills where you can't see it so in all likelihood all of your fish have it even if you don't see any spots. And again, it's critical to leave the heat at 86F for that 7 - 10 day period AFTER you've seen the last spot. Lower the heat at that point over a 2 day period so as not to shock them. Then vac really good again and give them fresh water..
One last note - do NOT use any medication when you do the heat treatment. It could kill your fish.
Last edited by fishmommie; 10-07-2013 at 12:34 AM.30 g FW planted:corys, female ABNP, blue angel, harleys, zebra danios, rummies, mystery & assassin snails
15 g FW planted:2 male guppies, neons, pygmy corys, clown pleco, 4 types of shrimp, mystery & assassin snails
90 g FW planted:congos, rainbows, roseline sharks, kribs, male ABNP, peppered cories, assassin snailss
90 Gal Journal: http://bit.ly/1vC7gVX
fishless cycling: http://bit.ly/1DARf3T
fish in cycling: http://bit.ly/1ILvcfp
10-07-2013, 01:15 AM #7
I added a little salt before I read this not a lot to worry about. I have three big air stones already and lowerd my water so the filters will agitate the water also. I had to take the 50 watt heater out of my ten gal until I can get to the fish store. they both add up to 150 watts I also have a digital thermometer to keep an eye on the temp.
Thanks for the help.
10-07-2013, 06:12 PM #8
Went to petco in the next town by mine and got a Agueon pro 200 watt heater. temp is at 85 as of now.
10-07-2013, 07:06 PM #9
175 gal - Smudge Spot Cories, Silvertip & Pristella Tetras, Scissortail & Red Tail Rasboras, Zebra Danios, Wild Caught BNP
Dual 29 gals - Diamond Tetras. Harlequin Rasboras, Peacock Gudgeons
10 Gal - Mr. Betta's Fishy Paradise
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass....it's about learning to dance in the rain"
10-13-2013, 09:24 PM #10
Just an update the tank has been at 87 degrees for 5 days. as of today the ich has finally dropped of the fish it was on at least I don't see them. By next Friday I should be able to start turning the heat back down I hope. All fish and crabs doing well with the heat.55 gal community tank
10 gal Qt tank
10 gal going to be neon tank are nano still deciding
55 gal African cichlid tank in cycling stage.