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Thread: black moor got stuck!
09-19-2013, 03:54 AM #1Junior Member Guppy
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
black moor got stuck!
I have a 10 gal with two gold fish, a twintail ponyo n Clyde a black moor. It also has a pleco algae eater that is 6 inches long named phantom, a rescued pleco 2-3 inches long named bandit, and a 6 inch long Dragon fish called demetri. THIS IS NOT A PERMANENT HOME! They seem to be doing great as long as I keep the water clean. Which I do.
CLYDE GOT STUCK...
2 weeks ago I found him wedged upside down between bandit n phantoms jars. A space made small for demetris use, not clydes big butt. Needless to say... He got tore up something fearce as the jars are covered in pebbles. His scales were scraped raw and some were missing from his front fins back (no ddamage to gills or eyes luckily), his twin tail butt was floating behind him like hair (not good), and his other fins had more or less minor splits.
Step 1: I grabbed my 1 gal fish bowl n filled it with fresh fishy water and stole the tank bubbler to put in the bowl to keep it oxygen rich. I then reached my hand in and hauled his sad excuse for a smart fish out of the tank n put him in bowl. (iI knew phantom would see him as a snack) I then went to the store to buy medicine n got melafix.
Step 2: I quickly knew he was going to need a 100% water change 2x a day because of all the protective fish muck he was producing. Set up a second bowl to alternate from.
Step 3: he wwasn't able to eat. So before transporting him to fresh bowl, I would put sinking pellets in the water. (he has been on his side or back most of the time on the floor of the bowl) and I would reach in and prop him up like a fish vacuum n he would happily try and eat. HE POOPS NORMAL!
Step 4. Most all of his back fin fell off presumably because of scabing. This is now a week in. The tips of his fins are less jagged and more rounded with new growth.
Could there be internal injury? How do I treat that?
Will his fin ever grow back? How long will it take with that much damage?
Now that his open wounds are healed, should I put him back in the tank? Should I stop medicating him with MELAFIX?
09-19-2013, 05:05 AM #2
please share a photo of the fish and this 10 gallon tank as I have difficulty believing that anyone would keep any of those fish in a small tank even on a temporary basis.
09-19-2013, 01:59 PM #3
Yes, fins can grow back unless the base is damaged. If things are healing, I doubt it matters whether there was internal injury. If there was, then apparently it was minor enough to have him survive. The big tank probably is better than the fish bowl.
I also would strongly recommend you to look up on fish keeping basics, like with the pinned posts on the beginners forum, as well as research the requirements of each fish you think of buying. As adults, none of your fish will fit in a 10 gallon. Fancy goldfish need at least 30-40 gallons, common plecos 75 and up. Depending on what you mean with dragonfish(bichir, violet goby, arowana) it may need an adult tank ranging from 55 to several hundred gallons.
09-19-2013, 06:50 PM #4Junior Member Guppy
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Yes i know how big they will get, thank you for the insite.
The tank is my (will b my) prof picture. They all have their own homes so aggressive nature is reduced to their place of residence. I clean gravel once a week, resulting in a 50% water change. Rinse filter gunk off, but try n leave filter plastic bits alone for the natural cycle. The goldfish roam the 'pplayground' during thr day, n the three algae eaters pop up at night like lil gangsters. They all play nice. Phantom is a gentle giant. The food waste is almost nonexistent because of my 3 amegos. Just have to clean the poo worms up with the hose. The tank is fine for a while. Phantom is growing at a rate that wont worry me. I am going to get a bigger tank. Just can't right now.
09-19-2013, 08:43 PM #5
I didn't intend entering this thread, as the other members were bang on with their comments. But the latest post is one I have seen time after time on my previous forum as well as here at AC, and it begs for a response because this is completely false thinking.
And please understand, Ahema Veridali, my comments are solely intended to help you and other members who might not understand what is actually occurring here.
First, the injury to the pleco is almost certainly due to stress. The fish is in very inappropriate surroundings, and this causes stress, and stress weakens the fish. Stress can also be seen as frustration. We humans know how we react when frustrated. Fish react too, but they have limited means to do so. Either aggression, or the opposite, total lethargy. This is the beginning of the end. A fish that damages itself like this one is trying to escape the frustration. But within the confines of an aquarium, it has no escape.
There are now too many fish in this 10g tank, and there have been for some time. Your frequent water changes are helpful, and frankly all that is keeping them alive. The three pleco should not be this close together, especially with one at 6 inches. A 4-foot tank would be small. And goldfish...well that has been said by others.
As for "play nice," you can't possibly know this. None of us can get inside a fish's brain to know what is actually happening. Fish react differently to stress, and usually there are no outward signs until it is past the initial stage and at the critical stage when permanent damage is done to the fish. They do not recover, ever, from this stage.
What is likely to be occurring here is what we term stunting. Fish grow externally and internally throughout their lives, unlike us. The external physical size needs not only physical space but appropriate water and environmental conditions. When these are not available right from the fry stage, the fish does not physically grow. Some people erroneously think this is the fish "growing to the tank size," but it is much worse than merely a dwarf replica of the fish. Internally, the organs will continue to develop as they must. This causes deformed organs, weakened immune system, stress...all terrible things. The fish is then stunted. It will not have a normal life, it will be more susceptible to disease and health issues, and it will have a shortened lifespan. There is no way around this.
Buying a larger tank is obviously needed and right now. Or re-homing the fish. I learned a maxim many years ago that has allowed me to save many a fish: Never buy any fish for which you do not now at the time of acquisition have a suitable aquarium--meaning in size and environment--for the fish at maturity. That larger tank we all intend may not happen, either at all or until it is too late.
Check out the blue paragraph in my signature block. And good luck.
Byron.Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
09-19-2013, 10:30 PM #6Junior Member Guppy
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
First of, most of my fish come from my friends. I didn't buy anyone. I know that my tank is fine because when I had only Clyde in the tank, he would always get stuck somewhere. Doesn't matter if it was a leaf he would get stuck. Adding new fish I kept a close eye on them all for any signs of fighting. After adding the jars n top rock that solved the minor minor split fins on occasion. Adding ponyo confirmed Clyde is a clutz. Ponyo remains healthy n vibrant well Clyde who is almost blind continues to scrape n bump his way around. They almost never get sick, it is only Clyde that gets hurt. He gets hurt because he doesn't know where he is on occasion. I have seen it countless of times. He would be swimming in the forest n freak out cuz he thinks he is pinned under the leaves. So I have to rescue him all the time. This time however, he got stuck at night n I couldn't get to him b4 he wedged himself up to tight. Having a 10 gal is a challenge, and if my fish were passive by nature I would not say to anyone that a 10 gal is ok. But in my condition it is. Thank you for going off topic. I did say that it is NOT A PERMANENT HOME.
09-19-2013, 11:14 PM #7
Since you brought this tank to our attention, you must have expected that it would be impossible not go off topic when faced with the situation you presented. As has been pointed out, your fish need 10 Xs the room they currently have. It's commendable of you to take in your friend's fish but without a proper home for them, they would be much better off returned to a local fish store's orphan tanks/
Since it appears you plan to keep them, I would be curious to know what your plans are to upgrade their tank and when this is going to happen.
In the meantime, do you monitor your water parameters? if so, what do your ammonia, nitrite and nitrates read?
09-20-2013, 11:50 PM #8
Nobody went off topic. You are asking about whether the damage done to your fish is repairable. You received responses and advice telling you that there is a lot of irreparable damage being done to all of the fish in that tank.
Saying that it is okay in your situation, and being flippant with members who are sincerely trying to help, doesn't magically make it okay.
Just to clarify and to put it bluntly, the tank wasn't okay with just the black moor by himself and it's not okay for any amount of time as it is now. The fish are suffering immensely and need to be relocated immediately.
Unfortunately I fear this advice is falling on deaf ears (or deaf eyes, as it were). I'm sorry that this is the case, but the members here aren't going to tell you what you want to hear, they'll tell you what you need to hear. Whether or not you choose to make responsible decisions with the advice you are given is up to you.~Manna
10 gallon live planted aquarium with 6 neons
90 gallon fw community in progress
09-21-2013, 02:45 AM #9
thats whats up hear hear
[that response is exactly why I just love this site so much . If it weren't for all the wonderful people hear all the fish I could have harmed would've been significant just on my behalf , I hate to think of the no. of fish -Owners that don't find this place , I just shudder when I picture the possible conditions some of those fish undoubtedly existing in . and I am thankful to all the folks here who have helped me when or IF I needed it ( and when I would least expect it ) .To all of you members who have helped me along with all the rest of us THANK YOU and keep it up (for the sake of the fish) .
Last edited by eltylT; 09-21-2013 at 02:46 AM. Reason: spell checkask ?'s and change some water pair of JD's and loving it.
09-21-2013, 02:05 PM #10
Just like eltyIT said, this Is what I love about AC. Members tell people what they need to hear and not what they want to hear. I have seen this on another forum before:
"Can I keep my goldfish in this new 10 gallon tank I bought?
Normally I would say no, but I think you'll be fine!"
I hate that.
That's really all I can say."A room without books is like a body without a soul."