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Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. Default 20g and she wants a goldfish


    0 Not allowed!
    I'm going to be maintaining a tank for a friend. She previously had a 5g and kept killing goldfish. I managed to talk her into taking a spare 20g I had lying around.

    I set the tank up for her and seeded it with some filter media from one of my established tanks. She bought a goldfish from Wal-Mart, drip acclimated him like I showed her and a few days later the fish died.

    Ammonia in the tank was 1 on the API liquid test so obviously the bacterial colony did not establish quickly enough. Other levels were 0 nitrite and 5 nitrate.

    Tap water is as follows:
    pH 8.2
    Ammonia: .25 or less
    Nitrite: 0
    Nitrate: 0
    GH: 53.7ppm
    KH: 107.4ppm

    (I may have GH and KH switched around.... I'll retest to confirm)

    Filtration at this point is a biowheel HOB filter (not sure what size/kind... I didn't look closely when I set it up) and a mini internal filter. I was thinking of ordering an Aquaclear HOB. She said she'd pay for whatever filter she needs for the tank. She does have a heater as well.

    My plan is to restart the tank (not sure if the Wal-Mart fish was carrying anything so I don't want to take chances), seed it with filter media from one of my tanks and do a fishless cycle until I'm getting solid 0 ammonia and nitrite readings.

    She really wants goldfish but also indicated she may be open to other ideas, particularly now that a goldfish died in the larger tank. Mollies were one possibility that she said she kind of liked. I asked what she likes about goldfish and she said she likes their look and that they are more interactive. (She does not like bettas, fyi).

    I'm looking for stocking suggestions. Options at this point are:

    1) A single goldfish
    2) Molly species only tank
    3) Molly and one other species
    4) ????

    We have a fairly good LFS nearby and I'll be going there for stock. They do have a decent stocklist and are able to do some special orders.

    Any advice/input will be appreciated.
    "The Dumpster Tank" 26g flat back hex - Betta albimarginata, checker barbs, pork chop rasbora

    "Nano Fish Tank" 20g long - Celestial Pearl Danios, microrasboras

    "Mbuna Tank" 75g - Ps. saulosi, I. sprengerae, M. pulpican, M. joanjohnsonae, Cyno. sp. "hara"

  2. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    As far as I know there is no gold fish that would work in a 20 gallon. I have never kept them put I know rosy red minnows look similar to gold fish but not sure how similar in other area's. I do know that they are very unhealthy because they are sold as feeder fish thus having a high mortality rate but are very very cheap. They would a good suggestion after you've done some research about them.
    20 gallon tall: empty
    29 gallon: moderately planted with 9 bloodfin tetra, 1 german blue ram, 11 glow light tetra and 1 BNP
    10 gallon QT: empty

  3. #3

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I think you are right to restart with a fishless cycle this time. 1ppm ammonia is way too high and must have certainly contributed to the loss of the goldfish.

    I agree with Limming that gold fish are probably not suited for a 20g. Most goldfish grow very large, and are better suited for ponds. They are also very dirty fish which makes maintenance more difficult.

    You mentioned she has a heater, which I believe goldfish do not need as they are cold water fish.

    Limming suggested rosy red minnows. They have a similar coloration to goldfish, are much hardier, and are well suited to a 20g tank. I have a small tank with some rosy reds my son "rescued" from school, and so far they have been easy to keep. They are cheap and easy to find because they are often sold as feeder fish. The one downside is what limming already mentioned: since they are did as feeder fish and are very hardy, fish stores keep them in very crowded tanks under terrible conditions. If she gets some, make sure you watch them closely for the first couple of weeks or so. Check out www.fishpondinfo.com/rosies.htm .

    Rosy reds are cold water fish so no heater is needed. They can also be housed in the same tank with other cold water fish such as danios and minnows. Not sure about mollies because they need harder water than the others I mentioned. Some suggestions to start your search are zebra danios, leopard danios, fancy guppies and white cloud mountain minnows. These are all cold water fish that like similar water conditions and should be appropriate tank mates to the rosy reds. She can start with some rosy reds, and once the tank is a bit more settled she can add some of the other species.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bridgeport Connecticut
    Posts
    782

    Awards Showcase

    Your first one Tiari - Strider199 It would take me many months to catch up to how many real bettas you have :) - PhillipOrigami great job with that post - Jaster Hope power is restored ASAP! - C-Dub Because I was wrong, and you were right. Sorry. - bethyMT 
    Cancer sucks and a beer won't replace what you lost ...  but here is one anyway. :-D - 850R Couldn't give you rep so sending a cookie instead for your betta advice! - andreahp 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I agree, no goldfish should be kept in a 20 gal tank. They grow far too big and produce too much waste to be in so low a volume of water.

    On that note, the likelihood of the death is due to a simple factor of Wal-mart + fish. In my experience they are not the most well attended fish stock and especially goldfish.

    Other fish might be platy's or Sword tails, which have similar color and smaller profile. Other fish, though not as colorful that will make it up in the "zippy" department are Zebra Danios, Red eye tetras.... its like a swarm of Piranha in the tank and highly amusing. Guppies (all male or all female, always) are fun and very colorful, and play all day long, very active.

    One thing she could do is pull up some tanks of these varieties on Youtube, to see how they are in the tank, and if she finds them pleasing. Its hard to tell an activity level when they are in fish store tanks, as they are usually not in top condition and comfortable.
    2 10 gallon tanks, 1 20 gallon tank, 1 Fluval Edge, 1 29 gallon tank, and one backyard pond.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    907

    Awards Showcase

    【ツ】 - korith So glad someone else takes KH seriously! - talldutchie most promising newbie award! - talldutchie Good advice. Stick around! - ~firefly~ A gift for your knowledge of Tetras. - steeler1 
    For your continuing wise words - ~firefly~ Thanks for your detailed and informative post. It is a pleasure having you here. - William A second gift.  Since I saw you just recieved another Sea Horse ;-) - William thanks for helping me with your informative posts - vafa Grats on MOTM to the Tetra King. - Spardas 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I concur with others on the goldfish. And I would venture that ammonia was not the cause of the goldfish death so quick. After all, some of us are old enough to remember the bowl on the shelf with one or two goldfish that had all the water changed every week, with no filter, and the fish lived for many months. Not suggesting that is good, obviously not, but there was more here than simply ammonia.

    A 20g tank is not sufficiently sized for swordtails, they grow (or should) to 4+ inches, usually 5 in aquaria but 6 is possible. A 20g long (30 inches) is the minimum tank for swordtails.

    Mollies are fine, but your water is too soft if the GH is 53 ppm. Livebearers all need moderately hard to hard water, and molly is especially sensitive to soft water. They will not last.

    Livebearers such as molly or platy would work, but only if you increased the GH. This is fairly easy to do by using a calcareous substrate. Otherwise, you should consider more moderate water fish.

    Byron.
    Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
    Vancouver, BC, Canada

    Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    We're going to go with a minnow tank.

    Would 6 rosy red minnows and 8 white cloud mountain minnows work? Any alternative suggestions?
    "The Dumpster Tank" 26g flat back hex - Betta albimarginata, checker barbs, pork chop rasbora

    "Nano Fish Tank" 20g long - Celestial Pearl Danios, microrasboras

    "Mbuna Tank" 75g - Ps. saulosi, I. sprengerae, M. pulpican, M. joanjohnsonae, Cyno. sp. "hara"

  7. #7

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    A number of Danios have similar temperature and hardness requirements as the minnows:

    Zebra Danios (at least 4 of these)
    Leopard Danios (at least 4 of these)
    Glowlight Danios (at least 6) -- I think these are very beautiful. NOTE: do not confuse these with glo-fish danios, which are artificially dyed. The glowlight danios (danio choprai) are not dyed.

    Depending on how heavily you want to stock this tank, assuming you have ample filtration and are willing to do the required water changes, you could have the 6 rosies, 8 mountain clouds, and a group of 8 danios from one of the suggestions above, or go with 6 roises, 6 mountain clouds, and get two groups of 6 danios each from two of the suggestions for a total of 4 shoals and 24 fish.

    All these fish like water between around 65 and 75 degrees, with hardness from 6 to 10 dGH. If your light allows, you might want to add some floating plants specially if you go with the option to have 4 groups -- the plants will help with water conditions by helping to keep ammonia, nitrites and nitrates low between water changes, and the fish will probably appreciate the cover.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    907

    Awards Showcase

    【ツ】 - korith So glad someone else takes KH seriously! - talldutchie most promising newbie award! - talldutchie Good advice. Stick around! - ~firefly~ A gift for your knowledge of Tetras. - steeler1 
    For your continuing wise words - ~firefly~ Thanks for your detailed and informative post. It is a pleasure having you here. - William A second gift.  Since I saw you just recieved another Sea Horse ;-) - William thanks for helping me with your informative posts - vafa Grats on MOTM to the Tetra King. - Spardas 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I think we may have forgotten that this is only a 20 gallon tank. This is not large enough for so many fish that are very active and should have larger groups than below 6 each.

    I think the 8 and 6 suggested by nickelodeon is enough upper fish. Some substrate fish could be added; lots of corys do well at room temperature.

    Byron.
    Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
    Vancouver, BC, Canada

    Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]

  9. #9

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    I think we may have forgotten that this is only a 20 gallon tank. I think the 8 and 6 suggested by nickelodeon is enough upper fish. Some substrate fish could be added; lots of corys do well at room temperature.
    Byron.
    +1 - that's a lotta fish for a tank that size - I would personally stick with one type of smaller fish for a tank that size (two at most), especially if you choose a fish that needs a group to be happy, but to each his own.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Elgin, Illinois USA
    Posts
    5,146

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    Thanks for the nomination :) - steeler58 Thanks 4 help - pRED T.G.I.F.! - Slaphppy7 T.G.I.F. - showmebutterfly Thanks for sharing your knowledge! - Silbar 
    Happy Easter - fishmommie You stumped me! - Slaphppy7 Congrats on 5,000 posts! - Slaphppy7 For your 3 year anniversary - Boundava Here's to three great years ;-) - steeler58 
    Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - gronlaura 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by imma24 View Post
    +1 - that's a lotta fish for a tank that size - I would personally stick with one type of smaller fish for a tank that size (two at most), especially if you choose a fish that needs a group to be happy, but to each his own.
    I agree. Also, because they are such active swimmers, any type of danio needs plenty of swimming room - personally, I think a 20 gal is too small. The Glowlight Danios (danio choprae) would be okay (the bigger the school, the better), as they only get to about 1-1/4 inch.
    My 75 gal Journal & My Dual 29 gal Journal
    75 gal - Pristella Tetras, Scissortail Rasboras, Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish, Leopard & Zebra Danios, Wild Caught BNP
    29 gals - Left Tank - Diamond Tetras. Right Tank - Harlequin Rasboras, Peacock Gudgeons
    Future 40 Long - Panda Garras & Glowlight Danios

    "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass....it's about learning to dance in the rain"

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