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  1. Default Goblewarming's 36g bowfront... Reporting for duty before the problems!


    1 Not allowed!
    Several months back I came here looking for help for a newly (and badly) set up 15g aquarium and received some great advice that led to the saving of a fish planning for tank two. Tank two was slated to be a 20g long and arriving in November ( for my youngest's b'day ... No worries, the grown ups are monitoring/primarily maintaining both kids' tanks), but in the meantime a friend gave us a 36g bowfront set up that was taking up too much space after they upgraded. Now the 20g long will be tank three when it comes.

    Wheeee! It's like Christmas :) We gave it a good scrub, and an additional filter and got it set up yesterday for the start of a fishless cycle. And now I am full of questions!

    The stats:
    Tank contains: aquaclear 50 and an aqueon quietflow 30 filters, fine gravel, one large slate weighted hunk of driftwood

    Set up date Sept. 14 - added conditioned water, and dosed with pure ammonia up to 4ppm. Gravel was much dirtier than we thought ( after much rinsing) but we gave it a day to settle.

    Sept. 15 - vacuumed the gravel to get the remains of the settled gunk out. Removed about 5g water. Vacuumed tank one (5g) and added mulm and water to tank two with a chunk of java moss also from tank 1. Am. Dosed back to 4ppm and plan to leave it alone for a while now.

    Ph from the tap~8.4
    Ph in tank one ~7.3
    Ph today in the new 36g ~8.2


    Questions:
    The water level is down about 2.5 inches from the top (and from the filters' spillways) so we are getting lots of bubbles. I read that this was good for the cycling process. Yes?

    ph in our planted driftwooded 15g hovers around 7.2-7.4 we condition with aqueon water conditioner and do 30% water changes every 7-14 days. Ph in the new tank is falling too, but is the ammonia affecting the ph? Will it be likely to fall more once the ammonia is lower? Do the plants and percentage of driftwood determine the eventual ph? (I plan to keep checking it throughout, but am looking for a general prediction so I can research and dream of eventual fish.)

    Do I need to test for ammonia every day? Or should I leave it alone altogether.

    Is having two filters too much? I have read that extra filtration is good.

    My plan is to run two filters in the 36g and then, when we aquire the 20g, use the smaller cycled filter on it and then add a new small filter to the 36g. Will this cause problems or a mini cycle on the 36g? Will this make the 20g fish ready? Or still in need of an ammonia cycle?

    Unrelated to the fishless cycle bit, what sorts of lights would you recommend for plants in this size tank. ( no I am not to the point of having picked them all out, but I like val grass, java fern, and swords...) I have been looking at LED and tubes...advice?

    Once we figure out the lights, can we begin to add more plants before the cycle is complete?

    ... Full of questions! But this will definitely get me started.

    Can I just keep adding them here, or should I take eventual fish questions to another location?

    Thanks in advance! I am super excited about setting up this tank :)

  2. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Ah, and i would like to eventually have a fairly planted tank without co2 if possible.

  3. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Sounds to me you're headed in the right direction. I really am not qualified to answer any of your ?'s specifically but you will definitely get some great advice from all the knowledge floating around here at the AC.Good luck and hang in there , help will be arriving shortly. LOl
    ask ?'s and change some water pair of JD's and loving it.

  4. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Thanks, eltyIT!

    Now I am chasing my own tail trying to find a starting point for actual stocking! What fish do I really want and then who can live with them, then maybe I can work backwards to what kind of plants they like and what kind of light those need. Only I keep changing my mind about fish. There are so many fish O_o

    Oh well, the weasel will pop eventually...

  5. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Well, one question answered! The new tank has settled to a nice 7.3 ish ph.

    Ammonia dropped to 2ppm, so I dosed it back up to 4ppm (on advice from the forum).

    My eyes are starting to cross with all the fish research.

  6. #6

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by GobleWarming View Post
    Well, one question answered! The new tank has settled to a nice 7.3 ish ph.
    Your pH will remain unstable while cycling - you should be more concerned with your other parameters rather than your pH at this point - it sounds fine. Most fish can live in a range of pH readings - but until the tank is cycled you won't get consistent readings.

    Ammonia dropped to 2ppm, so I dosed it back up to 4ppm (on advice from the forum).
    While cycling, you need to let the ammonia drop to 0 before adding more - then you add half the amount to a reading of 2 - always let the ammonia drop to 0 before adding more or your tank will never cycle.

    My eyes are starting to cross with all the fish research.
    As long as you have enough filtration for at least double the size of the tank you are fine.

    Any questions you have can be tacked onto this thread - not a good idea to keep starting new ones - moderators will merge them anyway.

    You will have success!
    46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
    5 gal QT
    Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in

  7. #7

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by GobleWarming View Post

    Questions:
    The water level is down about 2.5 inches from the top (and from the filters' spillways) so we are getting lots of bubbles. I read that this was good for the cycling process. Yes?

    I believe so, but not sure sorry.


    Do I need to test for ammonia every day? Or should I leave it alone altogether.

    If it is possible to add some media or decor from your established tank to the new 36g your cycle will be alot quicker and I would suggest to check every day for that nitrite to show its ugly face and then drop.

    Is having two filters too much? I have read that extra filtration is good.

    No such thing as over filtration, but you have to be careful with causing to much flow. Some fish dont like that some do depends on what your getting.

    My plan is to run two filters in the 36g and then, when we aquire the 20g, use the smaller cycled filter on it and then add a new small filter to the 36g. Will this cause problems or a mini cycle on the 36g? Will this make the 20g fish ready? Or still in need of an ammonia cycle?

    Should not have a negative effect on cycle. Just make sure to add fish gradually, a couple fish once a week. This will give the BB to grow to keep up with demand.

    Unrelated to the fishless cycle bit, what sorts of lights would you recommend for plants in this size tank. ( no I am not to the point of having picked them all out, but I like val grass, java fern, and swords...) I have been looking at LED and tubes...advice?

    I recommend LEDs. They look awesome and plants love em.

    Once we figure out the lights, can we begin to add more plants before the cycle is complete?

    Cycle does not affect plants. You can toss them all in now if you had the light and timer setup



    Can I just keep adding them here, or should I take eventual fish questions to another location?

    Depends on the question. A moderator would be best to answer this question. I would start a new thread for each additional set of related questions, but not sure if that the right way.

    Thanks in advance! I am super excited about setting up this tank :)
    Good Luck and get some pics and/or start a journal
    Roll the Dice!

  8. #8

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Hi there and I have a question for you GW. Why are you fishless cycling the 36g BF when you have a healthy and cycled tank in the house?

    Can you place some used media from the current tank's filter or some gravel from the current tank into the filter of the 36G BF? If so, please do and then keep the 36G BF cycled by keeping the ammonia at 2 ppm?

    Quote Originally Posted by GobleWarming View Post
    Several months back I came here looking for help for a newly (and badly) set up 15g aquarium and received some great advice that led to the saving of a fish planning for tank two. Tank two was slated to be a 20g long and arriving in November ( for my youngest's b'day ... No worries, the grown ups are monitoring/primarily maintaining both kids' tanks), but in the meantime a friend gave us a 36g bowfront set up that was taking up too much space after they upgraded. Now the 20g long will be tank three when it comes.
    When in doubt, do a water change.

    "This ain't rocket science!"

  9. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Imma24 and fishmommie, thanks for the responses! I have gotten conflicting info regarding allowing ammonia to drop to 0 during a fishless cycle. More than half the tutorials I read say you must never let it get to 0 unless you are ready to add fish within hours and at least one suggest that that is one of the potential pitfalls of fishless cycling- that the tank can be cycled and ready, but the ammonia is allowed to drop to 0 and fish aren't added quickly enough and the whole thing crashes because the bacteria starve. Meanwhile you think you have a cycled tank. What is your reasoning behind allowing it to drop to 0 before adding again?

    I just tested again and my ammonia has dropped again to 2ppm -within 24 hours this time. Nitrites are still at 0.


    Taurus, why? Because it seemed like a good thing to learn how to do and I am not ready to stock this tank. I haven't settled on fish, but most of the ones that I am looking at like hidey holes and lots of plants, both of which still need to be acquired! meep! There is media from the healthy tank moving things along in the new one. I heard it would help speed up the fishless cycle, but wasn't thinking it could take the place of a cycle without doing something like taking the old filter cartridge and putting it in the identical pump on the new tank ( then would the gravel and plant bacteria be enough for the old tank to deal with a new filter cartridge? I didn't see as much info on this at any rate and I wuz chicken. ... and not in a hurry). The established tank is a 15, the new one 36 and it didn't seem that partial media from the little one would be enough to jump right in to stocking the new one even if I did want to.

    However, I do plan to taking one of these filters directly over to tank three in November, provided everything is healthy,(and putting a new one of two on the 36) now that people have told me that it will work. That tank is a birthday present and will be limited to easy, readily available fish, and once it is here someone will be twitching to stock it super fast!

  10. #10

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by GobleWarming View Post
    Imma24 and fishmommie, thanks for the responses! I have gotten conflicting info regarding allowing ammonia to drop to 0 during a fishless cycle. More than half the tutorials I read say you must never let it get to 0 unless you are ready to add fish within hours and at least one suggest that that is one of the potential pitfalls of fishless cycling- that the tank can be cycled and ready, but the ammonia is allowed to drop to 0 and fish aren't added quickly enough and the whole thing crashes because the bacteria starve. Meanwhile you think you have a cycled tank. What is your reasoning behind allowing it to drop to 0 before adding again?

    In order to have nitrites, the ammonia has to be eaten and converted by the BB. When you have 0 ammonia and are showing nitrites, that is what is happening and you dose to 2 ppm. Then wait until the ammonia is 0 and dose again to 2 ppm (only dose once every 24 hrs). When the nitrites reach 0, the BB are converting it to nitrates. When you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and are showing nitrates, your tank is cycled. Do a big PWC and stock your tank right away. Or if not ready to stock, just keep the cycle going (see below). If you don't wait till the BB eat and convert the ammonia and nitrites, your tank won't cycle as you will always be overloading the BB with ammonia. You can't stock your tank if it has an ammonia reading.

    I just tested again and my ammonia has dropped again to 2ppm -within 24 hours this time. Nitrites are still at 0.

    Wait until your ammonia is at 0 before dosing again.

    When your tank is cycled, you can keep the cycle going this way until you are ready to stock your tank. Wait till ammonia is 0, dose to 2 ppm. When your tank is cycled, every 24 hours the BB will convert the ammonia and nitrites and you will read 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites. With 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and a nitrate reading, dose back to 2 ppm ammonia every 24 hrs to keep the cycle going.
    My reply above. Be patient, you will get there. Then you can stock your tank all at once.
    Last edited by gronlaura; 09-17-2013 at 10:51 PM.
    My 75 gal Journal & My Dual 29 gal Journal
    My 75 gal - Gold Pristella Tetras, Scissortail Rasboras, Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish, Longfin Leopard & Zebra Danios, Bristlenose Pleco
    My Dual 29 gals - Left Tank - Diamond Tetras. Right Tank - Amano Shrimp, Black Neon Tetras

    "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass....it's about learning to dance in the rain"

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