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Results 1 to 10 of 39
  1. #1

    Unhappy More tales of woe....


    0 Not allowed!
    I have 55 gal tank with 4 cardinal tetras, two yellow fish with red fins??? (I inherited them and were in the tank when started), a black tipped shark, 2 mollys, another inherited bottom dweller.... At any rate, that tank my wife set up for me as a surprise; I use to have guppies as a kid and have always wanted to have a a nice tank with fish. So I am out of town for a week, she buys the tank and sets it up, has fish in it the next day that came from a friend of hers, and she was way-WAY overfeeding. Needless to say, it became a mess. I put the fish in a 5 gal tank and started from scratch. I did everything right, de-chlorinated the water, etc., BUT when I had the tank up I used Tetra SafeStart "Start Up" and put the fish in a day later. Everything was great, doing well. Bought a couple of platys and threw them in there. They die and now I have ich. I have learned my quarantine tank lesson. I have tried the salt method and have done ich medication (which has knocked off 2 tetras), some water changes, etc. and it doesn't seem to be helping. I do not have time to do daily water changes. Long story short, since I don't have many fish, I am thinking about starting over i.e. get rid of the infected fish, new gravel, new plants, new fish, etc.

    Question #1: have you used the SafeStart product or something similar and do you like it? I was thinking of using it for a week before putting in plants and then fish in week 2.

    Question #2: WWYD instead? (what would you do?)

    Thanks in advance for the help!

  2. #2

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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    The solution to your issues is research and slow down. There isn't a fast additive that will fix your problems.

    Safe Start does not replace the cycle. It may or may not help start the bacteria cycle, but it most certainly does not replace it. Let your tank cycle before you add more fish.

    Perhaps focus on one tank at a time.

  3. #3

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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    A tank needs to be cycled before you introduce fish into it, see the good answers you were given in your other thread.
    10 Gallon Beginner Tank... Journal

    40 Gallon Breeder: ... Journal

  4. #4

    Default


    3 Not allowed!
    I agree with previous advice from both members. You must go slow, there are natural processes at work and they have to run.

    Tetra SafeStart is a good bacterial supplement; in fact, it is the original forumula developed by Dr. Tim Hovanec that Tetra acquired and market under this name, SafeStart. It quickens the colonization of nitrifying bacteria but it does not instantly cycle a tank. Cycling can take from 2 to 8 weeks.

    If there are fish present in the tank, you must be prepared for daily partial water changes of half the tank volume if ammonia or nitrite are above zero. There is no way around this. Ammonia dn nitrite are highly toxic to fish, and even if this or that fish survives (= lives) through the cycling, it will have internal damage that is not reversible. Other health issues down the road are likely, and an early demise almost always (= not living its normal life span).

    Ich is caused when fish are stressed. Helathy fish are able to fight it off. Newly acquired fish are obviously highly stressed, so often they carry it. The state of the existing fish in the tank, having been weakened and under stress fro the cycling issue, allows it to easily infect the other fish. QT is highly advisable.

    Salt is often recommended for ich but with soft water fish this is worse because they cannot tolerate salt well and this only adds more stress and may kill them. Raising the temperature for most fish is the best method, up to 86F or higher, for 1-2 weeks. Again, not all fish can manage this. In that situation, I use CopperSafe combined with an increase in temperature but only to what the fish species can deal with.

    Live plants help with "cycling." Floating plants are ideal for this because they are fast growing. Lots of plants, very few fish, and it is possible to get a new tank "cycled" without even noticing ammonia or nitrite. And best of all, the fish have no problems becuase the plants take up most of the ammonia so the cylcing is what some term "silent."

    Byron.

  5. #5

    Default


    3 Not allowed!
    Byron's got the meat of it there for you but I have a couple of clarifying questions. The more we understand, the better we can help you.

    Your other post said that you have 4 goldfish in a 55 gallon that has been set up for a month, but it didn't say anything about all those other fish. Do you have 2 55 gallons? Or is this the same one and you just added the extra fish? By my calculations that would mean the 2 yellow fish are goldfish or you lost all 4 goldfish?

    When you say you started from scratch, does that mean you cleaned or replaced the filter media?
    What type of filter do you have?
    If we can get the brand, style of filter and how many gallons it is rated for that's going to help as well.

    Are you still testing with strips or have you had a chance to get a more accurate liquid test kit?

    Are you using Seachem Prime to help detoxify the ammonia? Or do you use a different type of dechlorinator?

    I haven't seen a post with test values. It is crucial that we know the values for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Your tank has most likely not completed cycling.

    What would I do?

    First and foremost, as advised by other members, pump the brakes! Get those test values from a reliable test kit. If your tank is indeed completely cycled, then you're going to have a much easier time resolving your problems and we can take it from there.

    If your tank is not cycled and you don't have time for daily water changes, then all of your fish need to be rehomed or returned immediately and a fishless cycle executed.
    ~Manna
    10 gallon live planted aquarium with 6 neons
    90 gallon fw community in progress

  6. #6

    Default


    3 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrunchyLeaf View Post
    If your tank is not cycled and you don't have time for daily water changes, then all of your fish need to be rehomed or returned immediately and a fishless cycle executed.
    Bingo - it's not wise for anyone to buy a tank and dump fish into it unless you know what to do to keep them alive - which involves frequent water changes - which you don't have time for...therefore, if you have the option, return all fish and start a fishless cycle with pure ammonia - read up on it before starting. As recommended above, get yourself a liquid test kit to monitor water parameters.

    You wouldn't bring home a dog or cat and THEN find out how to take care of it would you?

    Be aware that even once your tank cycles, you WILL need to change the water about once a week - tanks require maintenance - if you don't have the time to do that, it's not a great idea to set one up.
    46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
    5 gal QT
    Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in

  7. #7

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    "Your other post said that you have 4 goldfish in a 55 gallon that has been set up for a month, but it didn't say anything about all those other fish. Do you have 2 55 gallons? Or is this the same one and you just added the extra fish? By my calculations that would mean the 2 yellow fish are goldfish or you lost all 4 goldfish?"
    I have two 55 gallon tanks. The goldfish tank has 4 fish the longest being 4' body and I haven't lost any of them. Yesterday, I tested with strips, had nitrites = 10.0 nitrates =40. I did a 20 gal water change with no difference; did another 20 gal water change 4 hours later and I am at nitrites= 5.0 and nitrates= 20. I plan to do another 20 gal water change today. I am using a Top Fin dechlorinator, but ordered the Satchem product yesterday.

    When you say you started from scratch, does that mean you cleaned or replaced the filter media?
    What type of filter do you have?
    If we can get the brand, style of filter and how many gallons it is rated for that's going to help as well.
    It has a Tetra Whisper hang on that is rated at 70 gal. I did replace the filters and after doing more research and reading more threads, I see where that was a mistake. I will order the API Master test kit today or do you have another suggestion? Again after more research, I understand that I will have to do daily water changes until it is under control and I intend to do that.

    You wouldn't bring home a dog or cat and THEN find out how to take care of it would you?
    imma24- No I wouldn't. I was gone for a week, came home and my wife had a 55 gal set up with fish in it, including the gold fish. After some study and talking with the fish guy at Pets Smart, I went out and made a sizeable investment on another 55 gal tank to get the gold fish out of the other tank. I have bought a couple of books on freshwater aquariums and have scoured the threads. I guess what I was eluding to in my post is, I don't have time to do water changes on two tanks everyday; however, I will until I have it under control. I am trying to do the right thing to correct my problem/mistakes, so please don't chastise me; I am trying.

  8. #8

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Now for the non-goldfish tank:

    Salt is often recommended for ich but with soft water fish this is worse because they cannot tolerate salt well and this only adds more stress and may kill them. Raising the temperature for most fish is the best method, up to 86F or higher, for 1-2 weeks. Again, not all fish can manage this. In that situation, I use CopperSafe combined with an increase in temperature but only to what the fish species can deal with.

    Live plants help with "cycling." Floating plants are ideal for this because they are fast growing. Lots of plants, very few fish, and it is possible to get a new tank "cycled" without even noticing ammonia or nitrite. And best of all, the fish have no problems because the plants take up most of the ammonia so the cycling is what some term "silent."
    I started with Kordon Rid-Ich Plus-advice from PetSmart. I did a 20 gal water change, increased the heat to 85 degrees, and added an aerator. I didn't seem to be making any difference. So after reading different places on the web, I tried the salt. I have killed off 4 neon tetras in the process. I was thinking that I wasn't going to be able to get rid of the ich, so I would start from scratch, i.e. dispose of the fish, plants, gravel, etc. and cycle the tank the right way. If there is a sure fire way way to be rid of the ich, I am all ears and will try it. As to your plant suggestion, I have plants in that tank now, but not the goldfish tank. I will get some floating plants today for the goldfish tank.

    Like I said, I am all ears and want to do this the right way. I appreciate all of the post so far; I realize that you are taking time out to help me and I consider it a kindness.

  9. #9

    Join Date
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    hope this works - William hopefully this one shows up. - KingFisher It's the closest thing I could find to a snowflake. - Taurus Happy Birthday Girl. Wishing you many more. Ya thats why the Champagne is in play. hehehe - Strider199 For piping up - ~firefly~ 
    Merry Christmas! - ~firefly~ Merry Christmas - Cliff Merry Christmas - gadget228 Thank you and Happy Holidays! - KingFisher Merry x-mas and a Happy New Year Trillianne - Strider199 
    Happy New Year!!! - Rue Thank you for the birthday wishes. - mommy1 Thanks for the B-Day wish - Strider199 Thanks for the Rep! - steeler1 Thanks, and one for you too. - mommy1 
    lol - 5 steps to gift giving.  We should eat more bananas... potassium and all that. - KevinVA Here's to one crummy Superbowl, lol! - Slaphppy7 Happy Easter! - Slaphppy7 No Message - Fishhook A Birthday Bunny. - gadget228 

    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    The situation with ich is that you can only kill it when it is no longer attached to the fish.

    Ich has a life cycle, where it spends part of the time living directly on the fish in which it looks like salt/sand grains on the fish. It then drops off to start reproduction and you won't see it. (This is when it is vulnerable) The infants it produces at this point swim up and attach themselves to the fish and the cycle starts over.

    It does take a bit of time for the cycle to happen because you have to have time for all the ich parasites to get to the fall off stage and still be treating.

    Heat is used to speed up the cycle. Use either the salt OR the meds, but not both. And if you have tetras then you need to read the dosing and dose for the tetras.

  10. #10

    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    My apologies - never meant to "chastise" you : ( - I know this wasn't your doing

    I'm thinking the filter rated for 70 isn't sufficient for a 55gal tank - most filters are tested without media in them - once you put the media in them, there's now less room for water to flow so it's best to get enough filtration for double the size of whatever size tank you have - and that's pretty important especially with goldfish which are big waste producers.

    I used Kordon all natural ick attack when I had ick - it worked well for me. I used it way past when I should have stopped because even after you don't see the spots on the fish, the varmints can still live in the substrate which is where they are killable - if they aren't killed there, they can then hop onto fish again.

    Many people have had success with salt & higher temps - sometimes you do lose fish in the process.

    If you choose to get rid of everything & start from scratch that's up to you but most people don't do that. In the future, quarantining new fish is the way to avoid ick.
    46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
    5 gal QT
    Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in

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