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Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. Default Reading driving me nuts, not just the readings ...


    0 Not allowed!
    Hi-
    I am new to this forum and thought perhaps someone would help me with this. My uncle decided to get back to the hobby, 50 years after quitting it. He's been reluctant to get back in because he was afraid to become enslave to it (he did not want to have to put up with all the maintenance chores and he likes to travel and would have my little cousin care for it while gone). So he set up a FW 10g with a couple of very young discus, a velvet sword, a rainbow shark and a rainbow sword. Instead of following my recommendations and cycle his aquarium with Aquabella, he decides to do a fish cycle and dose his aquarium with Prime every day, 5x the recommended dosage for two months, still has Ammonia at 4ppm, Nitrites are 0 and Nitrates 40ppm. Then he decide to add AquaBella.
    At this point i feel that after replenishing his aquarium with good bacteria, his Ammonia will go down, but no! Then i discover that the API test kit we've been using will show a wrong reading when used with Prime. At this point i am not too worried cause is pH is 6. But we get another test kit, which shows no ammonia, but ammonium ... of course!
    It's been two weeks + since he stopped the Prime, since then the ammonium has gone down to 2, nitrites is 0 and nitrates is +40ppm.
    GH is 120ppm
    KH is 0ppm
    PH is 6 or below

    I don't understand why the ammonium is not going down, i mean, seachem says its product wears of after 48hrs, but i have never heard of a synthetic chemical disappear that fast, especially if it has been heavily used. Could it be the KH is too low?

    The fish are doing extraordinary well, water is crystal clear, he is happy but i am weary of a Ph crash and not seeing the ammonium goes to zero.

    Please, help, he dreams of having a discus only display and i know it will cheer him up everyday!

  2. #2

    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    Here is what I would suggest:
    -Rehome your fish as at least most of them are not suitable for a 10 gallon tank
    -Stop adding the bio additive and stop adding a dialy X5 dose of prime
    -Complete a fishless (link below in my sig will explain how)

    You are really going to need a bigger tank for some discus and you typically want to wait and add them to a already cycled tank

    What type of filter are you currently using ?
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  3. #3

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Ditto on Cliff's advice. You do realize how big the discus will get? Not only that, is he feeding them adequately? They're easily stunted if not fed properly. If the water is clean and clear, then he's obviously not feeding them enough for proper grow out.

    If he wants a discus display tank, he will need at least a 55 gallons tank (bigger is better, full grown discus can reach up to 7-8 inches). This way he can squeeze in 6 so they can establish their normal pecking order.
    Think with logic and rationality more than emotion. Act with moderation and consideration. Contemplate ideals and realistic goals and weigh out possibilities and options. Temper not with personal delusions or false hope but learn to accept and move on.

  4. #4

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Sorry, but ditto what Cliff said. Discus are quite a large fish, there's no way he can keep discus in a 10gal for their full life span.
    I wouldn't trust any readings you get while the water is so heavily dosed...is he also completing water changes regularly?

  5. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Thanks Cliff
    As said, Prime was stopped 2 1/2 week ago. AquaBella does not need more than what has been already in. His aquarium is cycled, i have no doubt about it, otherwise, the numbers will not be going down but up.
    Yes, as i said, he wants a bigger only discus tank. I've talking him into getting at least 100g. The three other fish will remain in the 10g for a while or be transferred with the discuss.
    Filter is Aqueon 10.
    Yes, we could start over, that happens, but i am interested in the numbers, especially if KH as the GH seems ok to me, and if any, what impact a 0 KH would have on either Prime or the bacteria.
    What do you think?

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by sheamurai View Post
    I wouldn't trust any readings you get while the water is so heavily dosed...is he also completing water changes regularly?
    Thank you Sheamurai
    Yes, the plan is to get a 100+ gallon aquarium. If i can't turn this around and he gets a pH crash, i don't think he'll go for it. So you think the water is still dosed with Prime? That's my hint.
    What will be best to increase the KH without affecting the PH?

  7. #7

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    If am understanding your original post correctly, you have 2ppm of ammonia right now ? If you still have ammonia in your tank, then I would say your tank is not cycled

    While adding bacteria products like aquabella will certainly help your cycle, it will not instantly cycle your tank for you. Until you tank is cycled, or until your fish are rehomed, test your water daily and complete enough of a water change to lower your ammonia and/or nitrites to 0.25pp. You have to understand that your pH won't become very stable until your tank is cycled. I would focus on that first.
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  8. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    If am understanding your original post correctly, you have 2ppm of ammonia right now ? If you still have ammonia in your tank, then I would say your tank is not cycled

    While adding bacteria products like aquabella will certainly help your cycle, it will not instantly cycle your tank for you. Until you tank is cycled, or until your fish are rehomed, test your water daily and complete enough of a water change to lower your ammonia and/or nitrites to 0.25pp. You have to understand that your pH won't become very stable until your tank is cycled. I would focus on that first.
    It is ammonium because of the low pH. My guess is that it is due to overdosing with Prime. I cycled and been running 2 aquariums with AquaBella with no problem (but I spent the $$ in RO water), did not have to do a water change, added my fish 2 days after the first dose, no fish loss, so it did cycle my tank re: established beneficial bacteria to complete the nitrogen cycle. My other guess and perhaps just a contributor is the KH at 0.
    It seems to me that I can try to raise the KH with Potassium Carbonate, which will have a low incidence on PH. I was hoping to find someone with a similar situation :(

  9. #9

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Yes, I do understand that ammonia turns into ammonium in low pH levels like yours, but the fact that either one is there means you to not have enough established bacteria in your tank as the beneficial bacteria that we grow in our tanks will consume both ammonia and ammonium. I would suggest to handle this situation just like you would for cycling with fish (link below in my sig) until you can grow enough bacteria to handle the bioload. The good news here is that ammonium is far less toxic to fish than ammonia.

    If I understand you above post correctly, you used RO water to set-up your tank ?

    Did you use a RO water supplement to replace the minerals that were striped out ? If not, this could explain some of your difficulties. A very low pH like your will slow the growth of your bacteria
    Last edited by Cliff; 09-07-2013 at 09:22 PM.
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  10. #10

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    At this point i am not too worried cause is pH is 6. But we get another test kit, which shows no ammonia, but ammonium ... of course!
    It's been two weeks + since he stopped the Prime, since then the ammonium has gone down to 2, nitrites is 0 and nitrates is +40ppm.
    GH is 120ppm
    KH is 0ppm
    PH is 6 or below
    I think the numbers tell the story. If KH is really 0, there's nothing to buffer the pH and keep is stable.

    Cliff hit the nail on the head.
    When in doubt, do a water change.

    "This ain't rocket science!"

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