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Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. Default Changing substrate in newly cycled 55 gallon tank


    0 Not allowed!
    The tank has just finished cycling and I used the gravel that is in it now to seed the new tank. Now that my filter has built some BB on it can I remove the gravel, switch it with sand, and add Seachem Stability to help the filter account for the BB missing from the substrate. I currently have a Tetra Whisper EX70 filter, but I am going to get a Aquaclear 110 as well.

  2. #2

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I assume there are no fish in the new tank, so I would just change the substrate. Frankly, I don't know if much in the way of bacteria will be in the filter yet, but that doesn't really matter, you can't wait for ever.

    Stability is a good product, I have used it myself, though I prefer live plants to "cycle."

    Byron.

  3. #3

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    Default


    1 Not allowed!
    There is a lot more bacteria in the filter media than there is in the tank because of the greater surface area in the media. Your tank is cycled but it is not mature, for this reason it is not usually advised to do too many changes in a newly cycled tank. However, if there are no fish in the tank you probably won't hurt anything by changing the substrate. Since this is a newly cycled tank, you probably are not losing much bacteria from the substrate anyway, just take care of that filter. I've never used Stability or anything like it so I can't really comment on its use, I use water changes to keep my tanks healthy and non-toxic for my fish.
    When I go fishing I just place a sharp rock in the water and sit there waiting for all the dead fish to float to the top... Kingfisher
    Brutal honesty will be shown on this screen.
    I think my fish is adjusting well to the four gallon, He's laying on his side attempting to go to sleep on the bottom of the gravel.
    Tolerance is a great thing to have, so is the ability to shut up.

    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.


  4. #4

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Honey Badger 1 View Post
    There is a lot more bacteria in the filter media than there is in the tank because of the greater surface area in the media. Your tank is cycled but it is not mature, for this reason it is not usually advised to do too many changes in a newly cycled tank. However, if there are no fish in the tank you probably won't hurt anything by changing the substrate. Since this is a newly cycled tank, you probably are not losing much bacteria from the substrate anyway, just take care of that filter. I've never used Stability or anything like it so I can't really comment on its use, I use water changes to keep my tanks healthy and non-toxic for my fish.
    While I generally agree with the principles here, I think the specific circumstances of acetune's tank are quite different. He/she placed bacteria-laden substrate in the tank and no where else; the bacteria living on the biofilm in that substrate are not going to move into the filter. They will remain where they are, stuck to the substrate, and assimilate ammonia from the water. Other bacteria will colonize the filter media if sufficient ammonia is present to cause this.

    On a very general note, it is not true that more bacteria live in the filter than elsewhere. The substrate is the greatest source of nitrifying bacteria in an established and balanced tank. If there is no substrate, then the filter media would hold the greatest collection of bacteria. I think a lot of aquarists have misconceptions about filters in general.

    Byron.

  5. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I do currently have 3 harlequin rasbora in the tank, which I plan on getting more, but that is why i want to use the stability to keep BB in the tank until the filter can build it up. Also, when I change the substrate, I plan on adding a couple of plants.

  6. #6

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    The bacteria grows on surfaces in the tank and in the filter. There is a huge amount more surface area on the porous media in the filter than there is on the smooth surfaces in the tank. What misconceptions about filtration have you read on this forum?
    When I go fishing I just place a sharp rock in the water and sit there waiting for all the dead fish to float to the top... Kingfisher
    Brutal honesty will be shown on this screen.
    I think my fish is adjusting well to the four gallon, He's laying on his side attempting to go to sleep on the bottom of the gravel.
    Tolerance is a great thing to have, so is the ability to shut up.

    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.


  7. #7

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I had completely changed my substrate the last time I moved my FW tank. I have done that twice now and nothing bad happened each time, not even a minspike.

    But if you do replace you substrate, please keep a close eye on your parameters for a week or two just incise things don't work as well as you expect them to.
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  8. #8

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Honey Badger 1 View Post
    The bacteria grows on surfaces in the tank and in the filter. There is a huge amount more surface area on the porous media in the filter than there is on the smooth surfaces in the tank. What misconceptions about filtration have you read on this forum?
    I was speaking generally. Aquarists as a group have several misconceptions about filtration. For example, some maintain that adding more filters will somehow allow you to overstock a tank; this is complete nonsense. And when Dr. Ted Coletti and Dr. Neale Monks both write repeatedly that more nitrifying bacteria live in the substrate than in the filter, I tend to accept it. I am sure it has to do with the other bacteria and processes going on down there; everything is related.

    When you stop to think of it: how can one set up a planted tank with no filter at all, and stock it with fish from day 1, and never have ammonia or nitrite above zero? Many of us have done it. Diana Walstad advocates this method. The fact that it works cannot be argued, yet none of these people are doing any form of "cycling." I myself have not cycled a tank in decades, yet I have set up dozens.

    Now, having said that, one does have to be careful when advising new aquarists. Those of us with 20+ years of experience have a better idea of what to expect, or what might occur, depending upon circumstances. So I certainly agree with caution at the outset.

    Byron.
    Last edited by Byron; 09-05-2013 at 11:06 PM.

  9. #9

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by acetune View Post
    I do currently have 3 harlequin rasbora in the tank, which I plan on getting more, but that is why i want to use the stability to keep BB in the tank until the filter can build it up. Also, when I change the substrate, I plan on adding a couple of plants.
    This should work fine. Make sure you have some floating plants as well as any rooted in the substrate. And use a liquid fertilizer to get the plants going.

    Over the past 2-3 years I have torn down and reset all my tanks, changing out the substrate completely in each one, which actually was the reason for the rebuild. I also replaced the filter media in the canisters each time. And the fish went back in the day following. I have lots of plants, and undoubtedly lots of bacteria was present on the chunks of wood. Way back I would use a bacterial supplement like Stability, Tetra's SafeStart, or perhaps the best, Dr. Tim's One and Only, but I decided it was unnecessary with all my plants. Still, this is a relatively new tank, and using Stability will do no harm, so I would.

    Byron.

  10. #10

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    Happy New Year! - jeffs99dime Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Mommy1. - Strider199 Cheers.  Have some of my hang-over cure. Happy New Year - Cliff Happy New Year! - KingFisher Happy Birthday. - Taurus 
    Happy Birthday. - gadget228 Thanks for the B-Day wish - Strider199 Looks like its time for a second cup! - Trillianne always fun - Surfdog thanks for sweetening the pot! - fishmommie 
    Here's to one crummy Superbowl, lol! - Slaphppy7 for putting up with my bad timing - Cliff Congrats on MOTM. - gadget228 For most awesome avatar of the day. lol  Love it. - KevinVA Thank you so much for the Rep!! - steeler58 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Byron, I question everyone and everything, including the great Dr. Neale Monks of whom I have great respect, with Dr. Ted Coletti I am not as familiar, but I will trust you that he is just as knowledgeable. You should have sat in on some of the “discussions” I have had with Dave66, a person I have mad respect for and you have probably cited his research in some of your articles.

    There are several instances on this forum alone where people have changed out the substrate, and in my own personal experience on several occasions, and had no issues. There are many more instances on this forum alone where people have changed their filters and the result was an ammonia spike, then a nitrite spike, again, once in my personal experience. All else being equal, this tells me that there is more nitrifying bacteria in the filter and it is more important to maintain the filter over the substrate. These facts cannot be argued.

    I am also quite familiar with Diana Walstad’s method and it includes a definite balance of plants to livestock. To suggest someone can throw a few floating plants in the tank and call it cycled is erroneous and not what Walstad suggests. Her method is quite simple and requires ample circulation and a heavily planted and light to moderate stocked tank.

    I also have tanks I have not formally cycled with our preferred method before adding fish. For these tanks, I added a fully cycled filter and have had no issues. I completely agree with you that those of us with many year’s experience have a better idea of what to expect, but those that do not have the benefit of our experience or readings, I tend to give a much more conservative approach.
    When I go fishing I just place a sharp rock in the water and sit there waiting for all the dead fish to float to the top... Kingfisher
    Brutal honesty will be shown on this screen.
    I think my fish is adjusting well to the four gallon, He's laying on his side attempting to go to sleep on the bottom of the gravel.
    Tolerance is a great thing to have, so is the ability to shut up.

    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.


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