Aquarium Forum
 


Menu
  · Tropical Fish Home
· Fish News
· Aquarium Forum
· Buy & Sell
· Calculators
· Equipment reviews
· Free Aquarium Ebook
· Feedback
· Link to us
· Photo gallery
· Plant species
· Tropica Plant DB
Tropical fish species
· By Common name
· By Scientific name
Tropical Marine fish
· By Common name
· By Scientific name

_________________
 
      
        Via paypal

  AC news is a part of
      Nature Blog Network

      Reef Aquarium Blog

Privacy & Ad Policy

Articles
  · African Cichlids
· Algae Control
· Aquarium Decoration
· Aquarium Resources
· Aquatic Plants
· Barb Fish
· Betta Fish
· Breeding Fish
· Catfish
· Central American Cichlids
· Cichlids
· Clownfish
· Corals
· Corydoras Catfish
· Discus Fish
· Dwarf Cichlids
· Fish Diseases
· Frogs and Turtles
· Goby Fish
· Goldfish
· Gourami
· Invertebrates
· Jellyfish
· Killiefish
· Lake Victoria Cichlids
· Livebearers
· Malawi Cichlids
· Marine Aquariums
· Marine Aquarium Fish
· Other Fish
· Pleco
· Predatory Fish
· Photography
· Pond Fish
· Responsible Fish Keeping
· Rainbow Fish
· Shark Fish
· South American Cichlids
· Tanganyika Cichlids
· Tetra Fish
· Tropical Fish Food
Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 87

Thread: Blackfish

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Stafford Springs, Ct.
    Posts
    592

    Awards Showcase

    No Message - Ms. Namazu No Message - Ms. Namazu starting the round off - Hardy85 The more the merrier...cheers! - Slaphppy7 I are as drunk are not I think are you. - Sandz 
    fishies - Hardy85 The fishies are coming! the fishies are coming! - Sandz This round's on me... - Slaphppy7 For being a good sport, objective and one of the most respectful people on here.  Cheers, brother. - KevinVA For being a good sport, objective and one of the most respectful people on here.  Cheers, brother. - KevinVA 
    cheers man - mojosodope Heck, it's 5 o' clock somewhere... - Slaphppy7 Everyone loves pie. - Honey Badger 1 Nice work my friend - Honey Badger 1 nice work! have a beer! - Crispy 
    lol, someone had to say it. - KevinVA Thanks for the rep, and for all your help! - wgoldfarb Merry Christmas - mommy1 Merry Christmas! - Slaphppy7 Happy New Year - mommy1 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I c0uld see s0me animals being rehabbed and released, with many species they d0 this successfully but I d0ubt it is ever d0ne fr0m a z00 type setup, I imagine there w0uld be far t0 many issues t0 deal with concerning interaction with s0 many humans and s0 f0rth.
    When in d0ubt read it until it makes sense, then read it again!

  2. #12

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Why should size of the animal matter? If you're going to argue that it's wrong to keep Orcas in captivity, then argue that it's wrong to keep elephants, dolphins, sharks, lions, tigers and bears - oh my! The argument shouldn't single out specific creatures in nature, should it? Orcas and Great Apes aren't the only creatures on this planet that behave similarly. Just look at how Lions train their cubs to hunt - or wolves, for that matter.

    Are Orcas incredibly intelligent? Yes... so are dolphins, seals, sea lions, cats and dogs. Do we show them the same courtesy of not keeping them in captivity?

    Instinctual behavior can be attributed to many things - including the care for and training of offspring. Survival is of the utmost importance in the wild - instinct compels these animals to survive at any cost. If a lion doesn't know how to hunt, it won't eat. The same can be said for the Orca. If a wild animal doesn't care for and protect their offspring, their offspring would die. Even the bison protects its' calf from predators (I've seen a mother stop running in a herd to defend its' offspring from a pack of wolves.) Pretty amazing footage, actually:


    A world without zoos and aquariums... I wonder what kind of an effect that would have had on the world populace? Would we care more or care less about the animals in our world? Would we even know as much as we do about conservation, if we didn't have these facilities and the research obtained from having them?

    Is it more interesting to see these animals in their natural element? I would argue that it is... but I do believe zoos and aquariums, and even Sea World has a place in society. They've created awareness and education on the many animals in this world that we normally would not have seen.

    That being said... since we have so many animals in captivity in Zoos/Aquariums, I do feel that we shouldn't have to catch any others in the wild. We should be able to breed any animal that we have, so that our Zoo/Aquarium population can be sustained, without having to remove another animal from the wild. Additionally - television has changed the world. We're able to see much more on the Discovery Channel, National Geographic & Animal Planet, than we could ever have seen years ago. Most of these Zoos were created pre-television/pre-any of those brands and without which, we probably wouldn't have those brands.

    I'm curious what you guys think of these programs by Sea World/Busch Gardens:
    http://www.seaworldcares.com/
    http://www.seaworld.org/

    I mean... if they don't care, why invest so much money into a side project to aid in conservation and education?

    I find many of these documentaries interesting... but they usually always have an underlying agenda - and it's usually not to "educate," but to indoctrinate and encourage you to boycott big business or believe in misleading "facts." Knowing these things, I still enjoy the networks I mentioned above, because of my love for animals/nature.
    Last edited by KevinVA; 08-01-2013 at 02:48 PM.
    Adventures in Aquaria - The KevinVA Story

    When in doubt, ask yourself... W.W.L.S (What would Lee Say)?

  3. #13

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy85 View Post
    My view on this is that the best animals for these environments are the ones that were either injured in the wild, orphaned, or something else that would almost certainly result in death in the wild. Bring them in, re-hab them and release if possible, if not, provide them a decent environment to live in for the rest of their lives. I enjoy the zoos that have the huge open fields for habitats... a little more natural
    I would agree with this, too... but then these people would come out with a new documentary telling you that if you remove these sick/orphaned animals from the wild, you're disturbing the natural balance/order of things. You can't win.
    Adventures in Aquaria - The KevinVA Story

    When in doubt, ask yourself... W.W.L.S (What would Lee Say)?

  4. #14

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Some animals thrive in captivity and exibit normal behaviours observed in the wild, normal breeding without intervention, do not exhibit repetitive stress behaviours, and can be adequately be fed in a captive environment that offers stimulation and behavioural enrichment. E.g. safari parks that have meerkat colonies.

    Some animals cannot thrive in the inadequate conditions we provide. E.g. orcas. These are the ones I would not support. Orcas in the wild live in extended family pods of between five and 30 individuals. Occasionally, pods of 40+ have been found. They are highly emotional animals, incredibly strong bonds and have complex communication systems (communication patterns which differ vastly between orcas from other geographical locations). Science is only just starting to uncover the complexity of this species and have indications of language characteristics and cultures between geographical groups. We simply cannot provide conditions to support this species. It is for that reason that I do not believe there is any justification for them being held captive.

    A zoo is one thing (and I do not believe that we should be keeping certain animals in zoos, as above), but a circus with performing animals (which is essentially what SeaWorld is) is completely different, especially when they lie to the public and cover up failings within their company.

    "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." Carl Sagan
    ~ My 350 Litre Tank Journal ~

  5. #15

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinVA View Post
    I would agree with this, too... but then these people would come out with a new documentary telling you that if you remove these sick/orphaned animals from the wild, you're disturbing the natural balance/order of things. You can't win.
    Would they? Where are these documentaries?

    I think most of the rehab centres rehabilitate wild animals that have become injured by human beings. That's possibly the justification?
    "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." Carl Sagan
    ~ My 350 Litre Tank Journal ~

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Stafford Springs, Ct.
    Posts
    592

    Awards Showcase

    No Message - Ms. Namazu No Message - Ms. Namazu starting the round off - Hardy85 The more the merrier...cheers! - Slaphppy7 I are as drunk are not I think are you. - Sandz 
    fishies - Hardy85 The fishies are coming! the fishies are coming! - Sandz This round's on me... - Slaphppy7 For being a good sport, objective and one of the most respectful people on here.  Cheers, brother. - KevinVA For being a good sport, objective and one of the most respectful people on here.  Cheers, brother. - KevinVA 
    cheers man - mojosodope Heck, it's 5 o' clock somewhere... - Slaphppy7 Everyone loves pie. - Honey Badger 1 Nice work my friend - Honey Badger 1 nice work! have a beer! - Crispy 
    lol, someone had to say it. - KevinVA Thanks for the rep, and for all your help! - wgoldfarb Merry Christmas - mommy1 Merry Christmas! - Slaphppy7 Happy New Year - mommy1 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Li0ns and many 0ther predat0rs teach their 0ffspring t0 hunt, n0 d0ubt, but I have n0t seen f00tage 0f them catching a prey animal, intenti0nally releasing it, and basically say"0K jr, n0w y0u d0 it just like I sh0wed y0u". When an 0rca is hungry it will hunt and kill and eat with all the same pr0ficiency as a li0n 0r tiger 0r bear , 0h My- L0L- but when the li0n teaches it's y0ung it says "watch h0w I d0 this, s0 y0u can j0in the hunt next time" then it chases the prey and kills it. It d0esn't let it l00se f0r the kid t0 give it a g0. An 0rca em-l0ys vari0us meth0ds- kind 0f like "I can sit here and wait 0r I can thr0w r0cks and f0rce a reacti0n" a li0n will sit there until the 0pp0rtunity presents itself. big difference in behavi0rs. )rcas quite visibly "enj0y" the hunt, li0ns simply have t0 hunt.
    When in d0ubt read it until it makes sense, then read it again!

  7. #17

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
    Li0ns and many 0ther predat0rs teach their 0ffspring t0 hunt, n0 d0ubt, but I have n0t seen f00tage 0f them catching a prey animal, intenti0nally releasing it, and basically say"0K jr, n0w y0u d0 it just like I sh0wed y0u".
    I'm not sure I've seen this in lions but other big cats do this. Cheetahs do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
    Orcas quite visibly "enj0y" the hunt, li0ns simply have t0 hunt.
    Indeed - anyone seen the footage of them brutally exhausting and drowning a baby grey whale? It was a fairly gruesome ordeal that resulted in them just eating it's tongue once it was dead - then discarding the rest. Grim. I've also seen footage of them "playing" with young seals, some still alive, by batting them back and forth in the sea.

    No one yet knows why they do this or what purpose it serves. Taking pleasure in the thrill of the hunt - an act of sadistic celebration - is a possibility. They're quite similar to us in a way!

    Viewer discretion advised!
    Last edited by ~firefly~; 08-01-2013 at 03:27 PM.
    "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." Carl Sagan
    ~ My 350 Litre Tank Journal ~

  8. #18

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Every predator in the wild "has" to hunt - they just have varying ways of going about it. Wolves hunt in packs (and will give chase for very long distances, if need be, attempting to lure animals into more compromising positions, such as removing animals from their herd). Lionesses hunt in teams (but will give up far more quickly and choose something more suitable). Alligators/Crocodiles lie in wait for unaware passerbys, by themselves... Cheetahs hunt solo and rely on their speed to kill smaller animals. Orcas hunt in packs, much like wolves, and work together to lure animals into compromising position, such as open water, where they'd have little defense, or in the middle of the pack, where there's no escape.

    These are just methods of hunting. Some are seemingly more complex than others, but let's not pretend it's something that it's not. Great White Sharks chase seals from below the surface of the water so that they end up jumping into the air and easier to catch... is that a mark of genius in a fish?

    As for Sea World... I see it more as a zoo, than a "circus." They house these animals in eco-friendly habitats (just as zoos do), while also using some of the animals to teach others what they're capable of - whales, dolphins, sea lions, seals (without harming or forcing them to). I don't see anything wrong with this and I also see that the animals being used find it playful, much as a dog would enjoy doing tricks for treats or playing with new toys. It raises awareness and stimulates the people's minds, who are watching these acts, to become more sympathetic and thoughtful toward these animals. Sea World also takes part in conservation and contributes to science... Do circuses?

    I think it's arguable that the living conditions for these whales isn't satisfactory, but it's also arguable that these animals are living much easier/happier lives in captivity, due to the care, attention, easy feeding, exercise they receive. Until you can speak Orca, I guess we'll never know. Have you asked your dog or cat if they're happy?
    Adventures in Aquaria - The KevinVA Story

    When in doubt, ask yourself... W.W.L.S (What would Lee Say)?

  9. #19

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    As an aside, the folded-over/collapsed dorsal fin in Orcas has been found in the wild, in addition to captivity. There are numerous reasons that this could happen - "depression" not being one of them.

    Here's a scientific research paper on it: http://www.scribd.com/doc/119426027/...lexandra-Evans

    Here are findings from studying wild Orcas off the coast of New Zealand: http://www.aquaticmammalsjournal.org...-02_Visser.pdf
    Adventures in Aquaria - The KevinVA Story

    When in doubt, ask yourself... W.W.L.S (What would Lee Say)?

  10. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by madagascariensis View Post
    It certainly is true that a captive aquarium environment is very different from nature, but proportionally to an aquarium fish a tank is much bigger than the enclosure to the orca, not to mention that most aquarium species are much, much more sedentary than the seagoing mammal. And while an orca is extremely intelligent with complex social needs and whatnot and realizes that it is confined, I don't think that something like a Cory would ever realize that the view never changes...
    Depends on the fish that you are talking about. Do you know that a jack dempsey pair will defend an area as big as an SUV (500g-1000g of water)? What about a silver arowana? or a gigas arapaima?
    Last edited by Rocksor; 08-01-2013 at 07:19 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •