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Thread: help, looks bad
07-18-2013, 07:40 PM #1Junior Member Guppy
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- Jun 2013
help, looks bad
i have a blue gourami and out of nowhere starting yesterday it looks like its on the verge of dying.
my tank caught the ich disease from new fish i added and throughout the treatment this gourami never caught it and never seemed stressed in any way. well the ich went away and a couple weeks later it has returned.
i turned up the heat a little bit (little by little) and have added the medicine for 3 days now.
yesterday i noticed this gourami just sitting in the top corner and not moving or coming to eat
usually hes the first one to come eat and is always swimming around
i dont understand, he doesnt have any ich spots on him or anything
i clean my tank regularly and add prime, and because ich came back (only on one fish) i added jungle ich guard.
today when i came home the bottom of this gourami looks darker than usual and it looks so sick i thought it was dead, but hes not.
i added stress coat just now but ive never seen anything like it.
any help would be great, i dont want to lose him.
07-18-2013, 08:09 PM #2Junior Member Guppy
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- Jun 2013
the darker color i now realize is his scales falling off... what do i do?
07-18-2013, 08:14 PM #3
One of the experts will chime in I'm sure...but in the meantime:
What size tank?...is it cycled?..how do you test your water parameters?..what type of filtration?...what fish were there first, what others did you add?...water hardness?...water temp?
07-18-2013, 08:31 PM #4Junior Member Guppy
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- Jun 2013
its a 55 gallon with a penguin biowheel 350 filtration system its been set up for only a couple months, i test with a test strip (i know, not the best) but the water tests ok, nitrite is a tad high than it needs to be at .5 but the hardness is fine at 150 and everything else tests fine. this gourami and a severum is what i had originally, they have been tank mates for a really long time and its actually the severum that has ich right now. when i added more fish i added 2 firemouths, a jack dempsy and 2 texas cichlids. ive gotten rid of the texas cichlids because of their aggression towards my severum but so far with the JD and firemouths they have all gotten along really well, no bullying really, the firemouths and JD just chase each other around mostly but no aggression, and up until now my gourami has been happy as can be. (off topic)
when i noticed the ich come back i turned the heat up from 80 to now 84 which i did little by little (now wondering if thats what is causing my gourami to suddenly be ill) but i did that so i could get rid of the ich.
my last round of treatment for this ich i did the same thing but for a longer amount of time, like weeks, and my gourami never even shown signs of stress thats why i dont understand why this time right when i start he looks like hes on the verge of going belly up.
07-18-2013, 08:34 PM #5
The gourami may have ich but you just can't see it because ich often starts in the gills of fish where we can't easily see it.
Sounds like he is having a reaction to either the raised temperature or the ich medicine. What temperature do you have it set? Is there a reason you raised the temp and used medication, both deplete water of dissolved oxygen and both stress fish so it is usually recommended to only use one method, either medication or raised temperature with salt.
Do you have an air stone running in the tank? The bubbles agitating the surface of the water will help keep the water oxygenated while you deal with the ich.
One last thing, how long did you continue treatment last time? It is recommended to continue what ever method you use for at least a week after all symptoms are gone some say longer. You may have stopped treatment too soon last time.
You and I posted at the same time.When I go fishing I just place a sharp rock in the water and sit there waiting for all the dead fish to float to the top... Kingfisher
Brutal honesty will be shown on this screen.
I think my fish is adjusting well to the four gallon, He's laying on his side attempting to go to sleep on the bottom of the gravel.
Tolerance is a great thing to have, so is the ability to shut up.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
07-18-2013, 09:04 PM #6Junior Member Guppy
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- Jun 2013
i know that higher temps and the medicine deplete the oxygen levels of the water but ive never heard that you shouldnt do both raised temp and medicine at the same time. i may have cut the treatment last time a little short, i quit after 4 days of them not showing signs but i had good reason. i had a difficult time getting rid of it last time it took a really long time and i did 3 different medicines before this jungle brand actually worked. my severum had it the worst and he was severely stressed, his fins were withering away and at the base of his fins turned a really bright red and he hadnt eaten in probably about 2 weeks and i was scared of coming home and him being dead. i would have liked to treat my tank a little longer just to make sure but i had to do something to unstress my severum, the weird thing was that none of my other fish shown signs of ich or even stress while this one looked like he was about to die. (my severum improved shortly after i quit the treatment and now that its back i can tell hes not happy)
no i do not have an airstone, i looked into in durring my last ich treatment but it was a little pricey.
so u think i should bring my temp back down to 80 (its now at 84) and continue medicine and it will still treat the ich. to my understanding the point of raising the temp was to speed up the life cycle of the parasite to kill them faster
07-18-2013, 09:45 PM #7
I would need to see a good clear picture to start talking dropsy or anything... Scale falling off isnt a good thing. I need to see the area thats affected.
The treatment I use for ich is salt + high temp, 1 tsp of salt/10gal and raise the temp to 86 minimum. Doing this will indeed deplete the oxygen, I would strongly recommend an airstone. The stone is $1 for 2 at petsmart and the whole set up is usually $5-10... Sometimes craigslist find you it free.
The heat will speed up the life cycle of the cystic ich and the salt will kill the new ich from forming. This should be continued over a 2-3 week basis or 1 week after the last sign of ich has been seen. Personally I do this for 2 weeks then 100% water change and still dose the salt but the 3rd week start stepping down the temp.
additionally you should look to take the gourami out and put them in their own tank if you think this is issolated to that fish. Quarantine tanks are a huge need in this hobby and petco/smart have their sales right now.FW: 1 45gal, 1 40gal, 3 10gal, 3 30gal all community tanks of different species
Sw: 1 55gal, 1 30gal show, 1 29gal show, 1 20gal and 2 10's
07-18-2013, 09:47 PM #8
If the fish are stressed as you say, adding extra oxygen is a must. The temp above 80 means the oxygen in the water will be at a low level so you need to add extra O2.
You said that your Nitrites are at .5? Did you mean nitrates? If you have nitrites there is more to your tank issues then an outbreak of ick. Your tank has lost it's cycle somewhat and your fish are stressing. A water change will help, I know it will deplete your meds but you need to get the water parameters back to where the fish wont be stressed or else you'll be fighting ick and other problems continually.
Add an airstone, do a partial water change. Thats what I would be doing. Good luck.Warning; Bulldog Pleco guarding my Sons tank now..
Please remember; every keystroke has a consequence.
07-18-2013, 10:25 PM #9
Everyone has given you good advice. To recap:
1) no medication with heat. Do a large water change to get the meds out of there and add some carbon to your filter to suck out the rest.
2) heat should be brought up to 86F and held there at least 7 days after you see the last sign of ich. Salt is also good but you can beat ich with heat alone if you keep up the treatment long enough.
3) get an airstone and possibly lower the water level to help with oxygenation
4) WATER CHANGES. If you are showing nitrites of .5 that's way to high, especially with fish under stress. Fresh water will help now - lots of it and often. You may have lost your cycle and need to grow new BB but you can't let the ammonia or nitrites get much above .25 until the cycle recovers and regrows in your filter and filter media. Make certain you treat the water with enough conditioner to treat the entire tank even if you only make a 50% W/C. Make sure the water you replace is the same 86F temp as the water you removed.
5) Get the gourami out of there if possible into a hospital tank and a bubbler and give him fresh water every day if you can. If you have no where to put him then let's hope he responds to the heat treatment and fresh water in the main tank.
6) Get an API liquid test kit ASAP. you cannot rely on the strips. Another reason why water changes are so critical now. Better safe than sorry.
Again - none of what I said is new, I just thought it might help you to have it all in one post to refer to. Please continue to ask if you have more questions.
Good luck. I hope you can save these fish but you'll have to get right on all of the suggestions and get it done.
Last edited by fishmommie; 07-18-2013 at 10:29 PM.30 g FW planted:corys, ABNP, blue angel, harleys, zebra danios, nerites & mystery snails
15 g FW planted: crown tail betta, neons, snails
90 g FW semi planted: Blood Parrots, severum, Jurupari, EBJD, congos, kribs, clown pleco, snails
90 Gal Journal: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ad.php?t=93939
Fishless cycling: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ead.php?t=5640
Cycling with fish: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ad.php?t=36492
07-19-2013, 05:24 PM #10Junior Member Guppy
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- Jun 2013
alright, thank you everyone with the help. i discontinued the medication and just did about half water change and added some aquarium salt using the dosage i found here http://www.cichlid-forum.com/article...tment_tips.php
and i actually have a few questions:
do i keep my carbon filter out during the salt treatment or can i put it back in? should i continue to do water changes with the salt in there, and if so should i add more salt and how much, just enough for the change or enough for the whole tank?
it completely slipped my mind when i went to petco for the salt to look at an airstone, ill probably go back and get one a little later on.
i dont have a hospital tank at the moment but ill monitor my gourami and if i see hes not improving or getting worse after adding the salt ill see about geting one, is 10 gal sufficient for that?
do u guys think adding melafix would help him?
again thank you so much for the help i really appreciate it
and yes ill be sure to get a better test kit, do you know what would cause the nitrites to go up, and it only recently went up because i do test strips pretty regularly and it wasnt alway at .5, it was a 0, i just thought maybe it went up from the ich returning or the medication i put in or something.