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Results 11 to 20 of 42
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    A little further from sanity
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    I had no cup, so I put it on a bun... - Slaphppy7 You are amazing! So smart and giving. - SeaLady Can't give you any more rep, but well said! - steeler58 Thank again!! You seem to enjoy your coffee. - steeler58 Thanks for the rep!! - Compass 
    this doesnt look like pie... not the right kind.. - Sandz for providing solid guidance to others - RiversGirl Thanks for the rep! :) - Compass cheers - Fishhook Using up my winnings on my friends! - Compass 
    No Message - Fishhook beeeeeeeer! - Sandz Bottoms up! (even though you don't drink, lol) - Slaphppy7 We miss you... - Compass thank you for the filter! - RiversGirl 
    for the fun game! - SeaLady Thank you very very much!! - Compass Love the games. Thank you :) - rebecca_finny TGIF! - showmebutterfly Thanks for your help & points. - metweezer 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Is it possible that you are letting the water sit too long before adding it to the tank. Prime only works for 24-48 hours. You might want to add the dechlorinated water to your tank sooner so the bio-filter can convert the ammonia before the Prime loses its effectiveness.
    When I go fishing I just place a sharp rock in the water and sit there waiting for all the dead fish to float to the top... Kingfisher
    Brutal honesty will be shown on this screen.
    I think my fish is adjusting well to the four gallon, He's laying on his side attempting to go to sleep on the bottom of the gravel.
    Tolerance is a great thing to have, so is the ability to shut up.

    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.


  2. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    "It possible that you are letting the water sit too long before adding it to the tank. Prime only works for 24-48 hours. You might want to add the dechlorinated water to your tank sooner so the bio-filter can convert the ammonia before the Prime loses its effectiveness".


    Good point Badger.
    Last edited by Sportsnerd; 06-09-2013 at 02:31 AM.

  3. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by kim92 View Post
    Add Prime twice a day until the ammonia is at 0ppm again. I would change 50% of the water daily until the ammonia is gone too. You may not see nitrites again. But test for them to make sure. There is obviously bacteria in your tank to take care of the ammonia and nitrite. So there may be enough to not have a nitrite spike again.

    Did you cycle with fish?
    I saw a write-up from a very knowledgeable source commenting on a similar situation to mine (a new 10g tank with Ammonia levels of 0.50 ppm). He provided different advise from that given here. He said test for Ammonia every day. If the Ammonia is at 0 leave the water alone, if it gets to 1+ do a 25%-30% PWC. If it goes to 3+ do a 50% PWC, and stay away from Ammonia neutralizers since they will delay the cycle. Apparently, he is OK with a level of 0.25 or 0.50 ppm during the cycle as long as it is self-correcting through Nitrosomonas. Reaching 1.0 ppm during the cycle would mean that the bio-load is overwhelming the bacteria and a change would be in order. Otherwise, ride it out.

    Since many here have suggested daily 50% water changes at 0.50 ppm or higher, I was wondering what your thoughts are?

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    A little further from sanity
    Posts
    8,272

    Awards Showcase

    I had no cup, so I put it on a bun... - Slaphppy7 You are amazing! So smart and giving. - SeaLady Can't give you any more rep, but well said! - steeler58 Thank again!! You seem to enjoy your coffee. - steeler58 Thanks for the rep!! - Compass 
    this doesnt look like pie... not the right kind.. - Sandz for providing solid guidance to others - RiversGirl Thanks for the rep! :) - Compass cheers - Fishhook Using up my winnings on my friends! - Compass 
    No Message - Fishhook beeeeeeeer! - Sandz Bottoms up! (even though you don't drink, lol) - Slaphppy7 We miss you... - Compass thank you for the filter! - RiversGirl 
    for the fun game! - SeaLady Thank you very very much!! - Compass Love the games. Thank you :) - rebecca_finny TGIF! - showmebutterfly Thanks for your help & points. - metweezer 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I see the advice as the same but with different tolerances allowed for the fish. The fact that ammonia is toxic to fish is well documented and it should be kept at a minimum for the health of the fish but still present to cycle the tank. .50ppm is often thought to be tolerable, but in my opinion, ammonia and nitrite should be kept lower, I don't want to live in barely tolerable conditions and I doubt any other living creature would feel differently. What your "very knowledgeable source" says will cycle the tank faster, but at the cost of the long term health of your fish.
    I agree that products that totally remove ammonia should not be used since that would stop the cycle completely, but products like Prime that detoxify ammonia for a short time, but still leave it as a usable food source for the bacteria, are nothing but helpful to the health of your fish and do not stall the cycle in any way.
    When I go fishing I just place a sharp rock in the water and sit there waiting for all the dead fish to float to the top... Kingfisher
    Brutal honesty will be shown on this screen.
    I think my fish is adjusting well to the four gallon, He's laying on his side attempting to go to sleep on the bottom of the gravel.
    Tolerance is a great thing to have, so is the ability to shut up.

    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.


  5. #15

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    +1 to the above

    I would suggest keeping the ammonia and/or nitrites no higher than 0.25ppm. I would also suggest basing the size of your water change on your daily test results until you get past this set-back. For example, if your ammonia is 1.0ppm, then complete a 75% water change to bring it back down to 0.25ppm. If it is at 0.5ppm, then complete a 50% water change to bring it back down to 0.25ppm
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  6. #16

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Products like Prime make ammonia non toxic for the fish. They do not delay the cycle. Any amount of ammonia is not good for your fish. There is a constant amount of it in your tank. You just do not get readings from it because the bacteria are taking care of it. Any reading of ammonia means it is overwhelming the bacteria. I never do water changes that are less than 50%. That is what my weekly water changes are in cycled tanks. If I had any ammonia in a tank, I would not hesitate to do 2 back to back 50% water changes. Large water changes are a good thing. I have never had a problem doing them. Ask someone who raise discus if they have a problem with large water changes.

    There are no products that remove ammonia. Only ones that will bind it to make it non toxic for short periods.

  7. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I appreciate your help, as I do that of the others! The advise I posted before came from a "Super-Moderator" on a very popular aquarium DB, and while not totally contradicting, it is a more liberal approach towards the existence of Ammonia at levels reaching 0.50 during the cycle. I have read up on this, and many other aquarium keeping issues, and after reading volumes of articles, posts, blogs, etc., the only thing I can say for sure is that for every learned opinion there are two other equally learned people with different thoughts on the matter.

    One says 0.25 ppm Ammonia is OK during the cycle, the next says 0.50 is fine during the cycle, and yet another says that at 1 ppm you can do a 25%-30% PWC, and that a radical water change does not have to be considered until the Ammonia reaches 3.0 ppm.

    As for stressing the fish, one says 0.25 will do it, one says 0.50, and yet another says that you need not worry until 1.0. All of this without even considering the type of fish.

    Its enough to drive you from the hobby!

    While I have found endless opinions based on personal practice, I have not found a formal study that details in some scientific manner what levels of Ammonia are truly harmful to fish. Given all the different species of hardy, and not so hardy fish, even this would be a guestimate based on the survival rates of different fish at different levels.

    At the end of the day is this all hit and miss, or are there any documented journals out there that have the answers we seek?

  8. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    any amount of ammonia stresses out a fish. 0.25 stresses a fish out but does not kill it.
    anything higher can slowly or rapidly kill a fish.
    keep your ammonia under .25 and you will be fine.
    its quite easy to get less than useful info on internet.
    but i assure you that you need to listen to this forum and not any others.

  9. #19

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I always used to cycle with fish. Based only on my firsthand experience, I have found keeping ammonia at 0.25ppm seems to work best. I’m basing that on the fact that I had no losses during the cycle. Other times when cycling a tank with fish, I had let the levels stay around 0.5ppm and often got to 1ppm for during the cycle. In those occurrences, I had losses and signs of stress in the fish. There’s nothing scientific about that, just firsthand experience. You can cycle with at almost any level you want. Sometimes you’ll have losses, sometimes you won’t. As you have already stated, some fish are more tolerant to toxins than others. This is a large part of the reason why I fishless cycle now.

    The difference (as HB1 has already stated) is the difference between acceptable and optimal. Take morden day society for example. In our prison systems, we have proven that a human being can live in an 8 by 10 room and live a very long life. But knowing that, we still build our homes a great deal bigger than 8 X 10. Why, because that is what we are more comfortable with. Comfort = better long term health. That might be an over exaggerated example, but it does illustrate the point I’m trying to make

    If you know ammonia is toxic to fish (Lots of scientific proof of that out there), and you can use a lower level to cycle a tank, then why would you not want to aim for that level ?

    I would not get too hung up on the fact that there are many different approaches to achieve a cycled tank. There is no one correct way, just different approaches with different pros and cons.

    And just a word of advice, don’t weight the quality of one’s advice based on the title assigned to a person on a forum. Those titles are not handed out based solely one’s knowledge of the hobby, and that goes for any forum out there. Base the quality of the advice given on your research. After all, you don’t truly know the people on any forum so you need a way to gauge the accuracy of their advice. Personal research from published resources will do that for you.
    If you take your time to do the research FIRST, you can successfully set-up and keep ANY type of aquarium with ease.
    "Not using a quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette. Nobody wins the game, some people just get to play longer than others." - Anthony Calfo
    Fishless Cycle Cycling with Fish Marine Aquarium Info [URL="http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/"]

  10. #20

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by vafa View Post
    but i assure you that you need to listen to this forum and not any others.
    And why is that? It seems as if the OP has gotten good advice from several different sources.

    My opinion on cycle with fish is there is nothing wrong with it. But, you need to do large and frequent water changes, which is a pain. If I were to cycle a tank with fish, I would be doing several large water changes, 50% or more, 2 or 3 times a day to keep the ammonia as low as possible. This will not slow the cycle down, in my opinion. Like I said previously, there is always ammonia in your tank. I have heard cycling with fish will take longer than a fishless cycle. I have no idea if this is true or not. I have always heard that it takes anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks for a tank to cycle. And that seems to be the numbers used if you are using fish or not. I personally have never cycled a tank with fish. The first tank I cycled I did with raw shrimp, and it worked well. But it also took two months to complete. Since then, I use filter media from established filters and put it in a new filter. Instant cycle. In your case, this is just my opinion, I would large water changes often. It is a 10 gallon tank. So changing 5 gallons out of it a couple times a day should not take that long. Whether you need to be doing this, I honestly don't know. I'm not a chemist or a biologist. But to me, keeping something as nasty as ammonia out of the water you are keeping your fish in, seems like a good idea.

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