Fish Room Setup
I am going to be breeding class n endlers. This is my first step into line breeding.
1 - 120 gallon
1 - 30 gallon sump
- 200gph pump
- 200 bio balls
- sponge filter
4- 10 gallons
2- 5 gallons
1 - 20 gallon
I am planing on using the 120 gallon as a colony breeding tank. I am unsure of how many fish that i will be able to sustain in it. It is a 120 gallon long. So there is 1440 square inches of surface space. From what i have read up on guppies they will need 3 square inches of surface water. So i would be able to have a colony of 480 endlers? I want to keep a colony so i have a large pool of genetic diversity.
With the other tanks used for the line breeding.
Will 30 gallon sump be large enough for the 190 gallons of tanks? Should i turn up the amount of water flow in the sump?
or should i use another 20 gallon as a sump? So i have 50 gallons of sump. or will the extra 20 gallons not matter?
Will i still need to supply air to all the tanks? If so what is an economical way of pumping air to all the tanks.
I am planing on automatic water changes. Water Solenoid Valve with a timer to turn on once an hour to allow water in and out. - power goes to valve it opens power is cut it closes. I want to set it up to add a gallon and drain a gallon every hour.
SO every week i will add 168 new gallons over a slow amount of time or would it be better to do less or more? once every half an hour i could add 336 gallons of new water every week. The water will be added slowly and drained slowly so there will be no shock to the fish.
My 2 main concerns are the health of the fish and biological diversity. As well as the maintenance time. Is there anything else i can do to combat these 2 issues that i have missed. Please let me know if you see problems with any part of this system.
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:21 pm
Ok, couple things. I am no breeder other than getting lucky a few times so I won't comment on that
1. Make sure you get your fish from many many many different sources, the more random the better
2. Do you have treated water or well water, because if you have chlorine automatic water changes will need to be dosed with prime everytime making life a pain
3. I would up the sump to a 55, thats my plan for a 200g set up I'm planning
4. You will probably need a bigger than 200gph pump to get the proper tank turnover. Cliff can comment better
5. For air to each tank why not just do a central air pump and some sponge filters
6. Will the tanks all be drilled? How are you planning to tie this system together
Just a few thoughts I had that you may have already thought of, but I just wanted to mention. Fish racks are always exciting :)
For ideas how to plumb the system
Ok so I am going to break a few things down in this set up that are good and a few that need changing...
First, for endlers, you are looking at creating a breeding pool in a 120 that will create a large genetic diversity BUT also a large variability. Endlers only breed with the last injected sperm so the last lucky man in 400+ gets in. To do this, you are looking at a large tanks that you will find hard pressed to get the right output.
I would strongly recommend you focus on harrem's in 10gal tanks. 1 spectacular male and 3-10 females with the traits you want passed. You can then have a seperate fry aquarium to see how the fry grow out for your desired result. This allows for systematic culls, elimination of genetic deformity, etc.
If you are breeding just to breed, you could toss a bunch of endlers in a 55gal and let them go at it and your population will boom over time, just have a ton of naja grass for fry to feed and hide and you will have over 2000 endlers in a month or so.
If you are really focusing on breeding high quality though, I suggest you get spectacular males and proven trait females and create a harrem in a small tank. The large tanks is to much room. Remember if a male and female of great quality meet on the left side then she goes to the right and encounters 5 less sub par males by that time, the first guys sperm is gone.
On the auto change system. I am intrigued on how you plan on temperature matching and removing chlorines and chloromines? You will kill your fish if you dont keep temps stable and chlorine will kill just as well.
How are you adding and removing water? You can lose fish if this is not well protected being you are using a high flow on a small fish...
Your turnover needs to be at least 4 if not 5 times an hour of the whole tank...
Good idea on the sump, that will work well. Good idea going with live bearers as they allow a lot of wiggleroom and will breed readily.
Last edited by Sandz; 05-17-2013 at 05:30 PM.
I am using the 6 other tanks for line breeding. I am going to have 2 lines and cross the lines every three generations. I am going to ad new stalk after the 6th or 9th generation from the colony.
I am getting my stock from adrian hd - he is one of the people who started the endlers. I am going to be getting 6 pairs of his blackbars. He is the best in the business. I am also going to stalk all the tanks with shrimp.
I only have chlorine in my water. Adding 1 gallon to a 200 gallon system every hour. I am going to set it up as rain into the sump so the chlorine can dissolve very quickly by the time it makes it to my tank it will be warm or i am going to use an under-the-sink carbon filter to remove chlorine. There will be no temperature fluctuations with that amount of water. The water will be drained from the outflow on the aquariums and redirected from the sump to the drain the inflow of new water will be pumped into the sump. I will have a timer that does this once an hour.
1 gallon of water added to 199 gallons wont make a difference on the temperature.
From what i have been told fresh water tanks do not a very high turn over rate. That 1.5 to 2x is the right amount i dont know that's just coming from our local aquarium club president.
I've heard you want a higher turnover rate. I know I have around 5 i think on my 55 based on 2 HOB filters
Just don't have the water with the chlorine dump right onto the bio-balls, that would kill BB. I don't think temp will be a problem, as long as you are putting water somewhat close into it. If you were dumping freezing water in I think even 1g could cause issues in the tanks that get the water first (specially if they are small)
Putting 1 gallon of water into a 50 gallons of sump would effect the water temperature of a 200 gallon system? The new water will be added to the refugem or the pump section. The water will be cold most of the year. so in essence it will be a .5 percent water change.
while you would be putting it into a 200g system, the water would be pumped up to the first tanks before having a chance to heat up
If those are 5-10g tanks it would be like (.10) gallons of the new water being poured directly into the new tank, in a 10g tank that would only be 1%, but if its a major temp change any fish infront of the water input in the first tanks could be affected.
How i'd recommend doing it would be have two feeder lines with valves (like a sink would) that feed into 1 line that is run by your solenoid. That way you can adjust the water temp being put into the system (just adjust the hot/cold valves)
Ok so you got good stock, check that off the list...
The diffusion of chlorine needs to go through a carbon filter at the least. So go with that idea. It will not fully defuse and being that you are adding it per hour you are adding 24gal of chlorinated water/day... thats a lot to diffuse by your method. If yoiu have seen it done and are confident, fine.
On turnover, for freshwater aquariums you still need a nice turnover to guaruntee healthy fry. That is the most important part in my opinion. It sounds like you have a local source you would like to justify your methods with. I am just sharing mine.
Putting 1 gal of cold water in a 50 gallon area will indeed drop temp but unless its sub 50 degrees I wouldnt worry to terribly much. Just stock two 300w heaters to make up for it. You will have a change in the hour so it should suffice that you have a lot of cold water coming in though spread in a rain set up it would warm faster... its just going to be a large batch of cold water from your sump area and when it hits the fish in tank before it warms it will be concentrated enough to cause issues... Happened to my angels once and I had to hand warm them.
I dont understand exactly your choice of such a large tank but it seems you have thought this through so good luck!