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Results 21 to 30 of 32
  1. #21

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by mizzoutank View Post
    Either way, if you have healthy, clean water then it doesn't really matter what schedule you are on.
    Yup. Clean water, good food and not too much of it.

  2. #22

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    Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - gronlaura   

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by fishmommie View Post
    I, too, will follow with interest and hope that both old school members and new school chime in.
    I'll give an example of old school. The owner of my LFS is a long time hobbiest. He has a 125 gallon tank filled with rainbows (turquois, boseman etc) congos, clown loaches, plecos and geophagus on display in his store. Huge numbers of stock. All rock work, and no live plants. I asked him what it takes to keep that tank clean. He changes 25% of the water once a month and has NEVER vacuumed the tank. He says it makes for a more natural habitat. I asked about nitrates and weren't they a problem. He says he never worries about nitrates unless they get over 80ppm. He is also a big believer in UGFs.
    I have to tell you this is a stunning tank and the fish are active and look healthy - and he's kept it this way for years. But my jaw nearly hit the floor when he told me what his upkeep schedule is and that he's never vacuumed it.
    So --- discuss...

    Are you sure this tank is in Iowa??? My LFS has almost the same stocking (all adult fish) in a 125, with an UGF and once a month water changes. Fish look great. All their tanks have UGFs and are on a monthly schedule for water changes and vacuuming. They tried very hard to get me to buy an UGF for my 75 gal. Their tanks have been up and running with the same filters and water change schedule for 24 yrs. They did not understand why I bought 2 AC110s for a 75 gal and was going to do 30% PWCs weekly. They are definitely old school. They recommended once a month 10% water changes - too many changes will stress the fish.

    Now I have to say, occasionally when I go there, they have notes on a tank or 2 that it is being treated for ick. I am cautious about buying fish there. Don't know if it's the poor maintenance schedule or if the fish came that way.

    I clean each of my filters every 2 weeks - they are definitely doing a good job. I can't imagine what they would look like after a month - YUCK!
    75 gal - Smudge Spot Cories, Silvertip & Pristella Tetras, Scissortail & Red Tail Rasboras, Pearl Gourami, Black Kuhli Loaches, Whiptail Cats, Wild Caught BNP
    Dual 29 gals - Diamond Tetras. Harlequin Rasboras, Bloodfin Tetras
    10 Gal - Mr. Betta's Fishy Paradise

    "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass....it's about learning to dance in the rain"

  3. #23

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    0 Not allowed!
    I have seen the good and the bad as time has progressed. Heck I learned to fishless cycle less than 5 years ago. I remember when it was common practice to get 1 commet per 10 gallons and overfeed til they cycled it for you. Much like danios after and so on.

    UGFs are still in use in some of my first aquariums at my granpa's metaframe tanks that still havnt leaked 20+ years later lol. I swear the good the bad and the ugly is true even today.

    We have to double the estemated flow rates, now that it matters, double filter, double heater incase one fails, test with liquid tests... I remember using pool tests on my waters to test chlorine and all that...

    I think that at the end of the day, as we learn more effecient means of filtration and what impacts have on the fish we keep, we will change. There will always be fluff of the latest and greatest and with innovation comes failure... Like penguin biowheels that stop spinning, or heaters being recalled.

    I think old v new school is a great reflection over how far we have come, how much we knew and now know and general rules and applications to go forward. At the core, the rules of fish keeping has not changed... clean water, good stock, good food. Now we just play with how we can be the BEST at it.

  4. #24

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by gronlaura View Post
    Are you sure this tank is in Iowa??? My LFS has almost the same stocking (all adult fish) in a 125, with an UGF and once a month water changes. Fish look great. All their tanks have UGFs and are on a monthly schedule for water changes and vacuuming. They tried very hard to get me to buy an UGF for my 75 gal. Their tanks have been up and running with the same filters and water change schedule for 24 yrs. They did not understand why I bought 2 AC110s for a 75 gal and was going to do 30% PWCs weekly. They are definitely old school. They recommended once a month 10% water changes - too many changes will stress the fish.
    Wow. Maybe they are related? My LFS guy just sort of smiles when I come in. he knows I'm pretty fussy with my tanks and he gets a big kick out of it.
    30 g FW planted:corys, female ABNP, blue angel, harleys, zebra danios, rummies,
    15 g FW planted:2 male guppies, neons, pygmy corys, clown pleco, 4 types of shrimp, assassin snails
    90 Gal Journal: http://bit.ly/1vC7gVX
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  5. #25

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    Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - gronlaura   

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by fishmommie View Post
    Wow. Maybe they are related? My LFS guy just sort of smiles when I come in. he knows I'm pretty fussy with my tanks and he gets a big kick out of it.
    Too funny. My LFS guy and I have very different opinions on how to keep a tank (like you & yours). I am actually quite proud that I keep my nitrates at under 20 prior to my PWC. My LFS guy told me recently that you shouldn't worry about nitrates till they are over 140. Maybe that's what their tanks are at? Being a newbie, I want to succeed and have made the commitment to do whatever is necessary for a healthy tank.
    75 gal - Smudge Spot Cories, Silvertip & Pristella Tetras, Scissortail & Red Tail Rasboras, Pearl Gourami, Black Kuhli Loaches, Whiptail Cats, Wild Caught BNP
    Dual 29 gals - Diamond Tetras. Harlequin Rasboras, Bloodfin Tetras
    10 Gal - Mr. Betta's Fishy Paradise

    "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass....it's about learning to dance in the rain"

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by discuspaul View Post
    ...But one question still keeps coming to mind that I have no answer for. It's: "Is there any huge difference today between the fishes of 30 or 40 years ago, say ( a lot more wild-caught then, than farm-bred & raised), and those mainly farm-raised today. Which ones are, or were, more adaptable to a variety of conditions ? Those years ago that had to survive through thick & thin, no matter the conditions --- or those that are babied today, & kept under seemingly the best of care & conditions ?" - I wonder.
    Just a little food for thought.
    I, too, am an "old timer" at keeping fish. Back when I had my first tanks (in the 60's), I never did a water change. Just added water when it evaporated from the tank. I always used a dechlorinator, but the only testing I did was for PH levels.

    My uncle started me in the hobby with a 5 gal tank. When I became a teenager, I had about 4 or 5 tanks ranging from 10 gal to 20 gal. I remember the day I got a HOB "power" filter. I can't remember the name, but it had the magneted wheel that spun a underwater impeller which sucked up the water into the filter. I used the filter floss and charcoal, which was the standard medium, and I had a "Silent Giant" air pump, which at the time was top of the line in air pumps. It looked like a big, white bell, and pretty heavy.

    Anyway, all I know is back then this hobby was a lot easier. Fish lived well, without all this testing and having to calculate how many square inches of fish you can put in your aquarium. Fish had babies, fish ate other fish, fish died sometimes too. But I would say I had more fish commit suicide (jumping out of my tank), then I had just keel over like I have now.

    I'm not saying the knowledge we have now isn't good and helpful, but this hobby is a lot more work, and not as fun (IMO), as it used to be. And I think discuspaul has something about the quality of the fish we get. Not only are they raised with who knows what in their water and food, but fish are being sold as a much earlier age. It's not just the chains like Petco & Petsmart, it's any fish place you find. I just bought a few White Clouds, and they were so small they look like guppy fry. I don't think these very young fish can handle water changes well.

    Ghpr13
    Simba 1994-2013 RIP

  7. #27

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    Like the others have said, (as a person who has been in this hobby for 15 years and has known NOTHING about responsible fish care for most of that) you start with the very high-maintenance stuff as you are learning good fish care, and then as you get more knowledgeable you change things as you see fit. I have taking proper care of my fish for about a year now, and for most of that time I've been crazy water changing, lots of monitoring, lots of tinkering to get things perfect. Recently, I have learned to relax a bit. I don't do more than weekly water changes, sometimes I go a week and a half with no ill effects. An understocked tank can go longer without a water change than a fully-stocked one. Plants help a LOT with your parameters. A UV sterilizer also helps...using that puppy for a day per week has really made a world of difference.

    Essentially, even though my water changes are not exactly a week apart, I change a lot of water per time. My tanks are not perfect (I still have BGA in my smaller tanks, GAH!), but I don't really worry about anything but dead vegetative matter and fish hormones, since the only thing that removes those two things is me. Once your tanks are established and you know your fish well enough to gauge how they are doing, you have a schedule and mix it up if you need/have to. As it is in most areas of life, you've gotta find your own way, eventually.
    Beth
    1 - 55 gallon planted community
    3 - 10 to 20 gallon planted betta tanks
    My advice: slow down, think, and be willing to learn. Then you'll be fine, no matter what.

  8. #28

    Join Date
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    0 Not allowed!
    i think the idea of water quality in general in fish keeping is to simulate the natural levels of nitrate found in unpolluted waters around the world. nature's nitrogen cycles involves hydrological exchange, leading to exactly what we do with water changes - DILUTION. nitrogen levels in an unpolluted standing body of water with average tributaries and outlets averages between 20-40ppm. in average flowing unpolluted rivers and streams, it is negligible to 20ppm.

    less fun or not - up for debate. i'd honestly kind of be happier if i didn't know these facts and would be easier on my upkeep. but - i know these facts - hence why i think 40 and below is a good bench mark.

    my hydrology classes i was forced to take pursuing a geography degree in college weren't a total waste for this reason and this reason ONLY haha

    ...if someone is going to tell me 120ppm is an acceptable level of nitrate, however...i'd point them to the east river 5 miles from me in NYC. let's see what healthy stock you can fish out of there, buddy.
    20gal heavily planted: 15 glolight tetra, 5 neon tetra, 5 otocinclus
    10gal barebottom QT: Empty

  9. #29

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    let me also posit the fact that fish CAN adapt and DO, but at a cost of quality of life and thereby, longevity...but i pay for my fish. not much...but i paid for all the crap that i need to keep them. i'm not going to have my neons live for a year or two when i can enjoy them and get the most for my money, and have them exhibit natural behaviors for longer...
    20gal heavily planted: 15 glolight tetra, 5 neon tetra, 5 otocinclus
    10gal barebottom QT: Empty

  10. #30

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandz View Post
    I think old v new school is a great reflection over how far we have come, how much we knew and now know and general rules and applications to go forward. At the core, the rules of fish keeping has not changed... clean water, good stock, good food. Now we just play with how we can be the BEST at it.
    Darn, now I need to add a variable to my formula. clean water + good food + good stock = a happy fish keeper, see >

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