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Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19
  1. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I did a simple test in the tank. I simple removed the flare current dropped and volume went up slightly as I could measure this in the overflow itself because the level rose in the trough.
    Mike
    120g Mixed Reef In Progress
    120g Reef Journal
    55g Freshwater - Out of Service
    My 55g Tank Remodel Project
    72g Bowfront -Out of Service

  2. #12

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Maybe I am missing something but I don't quite understand why you have the narrow section since any given volume of water has to go faster to get through a smaller diameter section. [IE: Putting your thumb on a hose to make it spray farther, It goes farther because it is going faster.]

    It seems counterproductive so accelerate your flows pace when you are trying to reduce it. Wrt diameter: The bigger the better would help to slow the flows pace.
    Gas mileage isn't everything OIIIIIIIO
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
    Why pretend there are no stupid questions? Actually, There are many stupid questions: "Should I drink this bleach?" Is just one example.
    Having said that, Just because it's a stupid question doesn't mean that it shouldn't be asked. It's better to know.

    A warm beer is better than a cold beer. Because nothing is better than a cold beer, and a warm beer is better than nothing.

  3. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinVA View Post
    I don't think that would happen. You're restricting water flow. You're already getting high pressure from the pump. Any obstacle you place in the way of the flow will restrict it, plus there's a "well" after the restriction for the water to fill and then exit the outflow, so you won't get the high-stream effect (or you shouldn't, in theory).

    The same practice is used for low-flow showerheads.

    Edit: I re-read what you said and realized you were talking about the 1/4" drilled holes that would create the high-stream effect. I doubt there's much flow from the holes right now, though, so the gained pressure will probably bring the output to optimal levels for the holes. Of course, you could always drill more on the bottom or back, if you're worried.
    Your right there may be minimal flow through the holes in the first design. But then again it could already be high it really comes down to the pump and how much water is trying to get through any exits.

    To the latest point. If what I understand you are saying is the same as what you actually mean then yes that the way it works. Your increasing the flow 50% but giving it 100%+ area to exit from yes so the volumetric flow rate will be higher but current IN EACH OUTLET will be lower. The slot again will just reduce the force the water has when coming out each hole

    PS I know you're running a bean animal overflow mrramsey, just interested the overflow should have auto adjusted and returned to the original level after a few minutes if it's working the way it should, did it?
    Last edited by waack; 04-09-2013 at 04:01 PM.
    6ft Australian Fresh water turtle tank - 2 macleay river turtles, numerous guppy at varying stages of development.

    5ft 150gal planted discus tank - 8 discus, 10 cardinal tetras, 10 rummnose, 6 albino cories, and breeding RCS in tank sump and just about everywhere everything done from scratch, filtration and stand tank
    journal @
    http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...d.php?t=101658

  4. #14

    Default yeah understood..


    0 Not allowed!
    HA - I need more coffee... I had to look at your diagram again to see where the holes are [High pressure zone.. so to speak].

    I actually just meant the outputs in general to save you so much surgery. :-D.

    No worries, You have lots of effective routes to get there.
    Gas mileage isn't everything OIIIIIIIO
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
    Why pretend there are no stupid questions? Actually, There are many stupid questions: "Should I drink this bleach?" Is just one example.
    Having said that, Just because it's a stupid question doesn't mean that it shouldn't be asked. It's better to know.

    A warm beer is better than a cold beer. Because nothing is better than a cold beer, and a warm beer is better than nothing.

  5. #15

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by waack View Post
    To the latest point. If what I understand you are saying is the same as what you actually mean then yes that the way it works. Your increasing the flow 50% but giving it 100%+ area to exit from yes so the volumetric flow rate will be higher but current IN EACH OUTLET will be lower. The slot again will just reduce the force the water has when coming out each hole
    Exactly what I was trying to say. Understood about the slot. It makes perfect sense. I wish I was somewhere else to test these theories out right now. ;P
    Adventures in Aquaria - The KevinVA Story

    When in doubt, ask yourself... W.W.L.S (What would Lee Say)?

    Have a fish problem? Fill out and post this completed questionnaire in the General Aquarium Forum, when you start a new thread.

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    When working with water there are several key items to address.
    Pressure, the ability to increase the base pressure from an operating normal or to reduce it.
    Velocity, the speed of the water flowing through a pipe.
    Volume, the amount of water flowing through a pipe.
    Friction, the interaction of the conduit upon these other items.

    Each of these items affect each other.

    When water flows through a conduit it's speed is affected by the walls of the conduit. This creates an internal vortex motion within the pipe. Flow is not translated as a strait line of liquid moving forth but rather a more turbulent vortex of liquid.
    This factors in greatly as speed and and pressure increase because this drives up the friction ratio.
    Considering that the water actually flows as a vortex within the pipe we have to carefully consider exactly what happens when we change direction abruptly or restrict the water flow. This creates a zone in which this normal flow pattern has been interupted and causes zones where the pressures increase and zones of cavitation.
    Discharging waters that have not settled into a normal flow pattern within a conduit will show them as either a higher or lower pressure on a gauge within these zones.

    Yu may find that using a wye rather than a tee and eliminating the two abrupt 90 degree fittings will have a positive effect. You may also be ale to step up the piping as it exhausts, much like a motorcycle muffler steps up to decrease velocity upon discharge. In many cases managing velocity will offer a better effect than volume restriction or pressure management.

    It seems to me that through the illustrations you may be heading in a direction that will increase internal velocity as the water restricts and then expands back into it's normal flow patterns, this increases speed of discharge which will be translated into a turbulence at the point of discharge.

    Search for hydraulic flow, hydraulic water flow, Hydrology, hydro engineering for the physics of the situation. You may also want to study Vernouli effect on fluids to get a look at this, it's really neat stuff.

  7. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    This has stemmed to be quite the conversation LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waack
    PS I know you're running a bean animal overflow mrramsey, just interested the overflow should have auto adjusted and returned to the original level after a few minutes if it's working the way it should, did it?
    Yes the Bean Animal overflow worked perfectly, it truly is self regulating. Now in my test the water level in the overflow rose only by a small amount but it did regulate automatically.
    Last edited by mrramsey; 04-09-2013 at 07:42 PM.
    Mike
    120g Mixed Reef In Progress
    120g Reef Journal
    55g Freshwater - Out of Service
    My 55g Tank Remodel Project
    72g Bowfront -Out of Service

  8. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Indian Woods Angels View Post
    You may also be ale to step up the piping as it exhausts, much like a motorcycle muffler steps up to decrease velocity upon discharge. In many cases managing velocity will offer a better effect than volume restriction or pressure management.
    Basically that is what I have done in the first illustration by increasing the actual outlet area by tripling what I currently have.
    Mike
    120g Mixed Reef In Progress
    120g Reef Journal
    55g Freshwater - Out of Service
    My 55g Tank Remodel Project
    72g Bowfront -Out of Service

  9. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    There are a couple of solutions to try.

    If the discharge port from the source is large enough to not restrict the flow from the pump or initial discharge you can increase the diameter of the tee using a bushing to step up the size of the point of entry. A manifold ideally. This will reduce some of the pressure that is gained by the water being taken out of it's efficient flow pattern by a tee. I see you trying to bleed off some of the discharge with the holes. You then need a bit of length for the flow to re establish it's pattern and then use a long sweep 90 to make the turn. Using the long sweep reduces the turbulence that a short radius 90 will cause. At the water comes into the short radius 90 it crashes into itself and becomes turbulent. This turbulence increases the pressure just prior to and within the short radius of the 90. As the water escapes the turbulent area of the 90 it does so with an increase in velocity. Water leaving a short radius fitting can have a lot more speed as it tries to escape from the confines of the 90. This turbulent area with increased speeds evens itself out within a piping system so you do not realize it is going on,yet it can damage piping from this. The higher the pressure the more turbulence the more speed. You would not think so but in actuality all of this crashing into short sweeps makes the water like a top fuel Drag racing bull dozer.

    You could do a few flow tests using various fittings on a garden hose to see what gives you the best discharge profile. If you place a short radius 90 and a few short sections of tubing together you will see that the discharge will be heavily aerated and the speed of the water will be high.
    If you use a long radius you will see a more organized discharge and less speed and turbulence. You can change the discharge characteristic by adding various amounts of tube after each of the 90's. This will change as the flow flattens out after the 90 into the tube.

    It's possible you may have to use a manifold with more discharge points to get a smoother profile.

    Hope this helps.

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