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Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. Default Noob: root tabs with fresh eco-complete and flourite?


    0 Not allowed!
    Hey all,

    So I have my first tank set up. Just finished cycling. Substrate is a 3" deep 50/50 mix of eco-complete fine grade & flourite sand. 24" two bulb T5 HO light fixture with a 6700k bulb & a 10,000k bulb (will replace the 10,000k soon with another 6700k). Dose daily with flourish excel. I bought two water sprites, a bunched java fern, a crypt spiralis, and a hygro kompakt. All the plants were vibrant green & appeared very healthy. The guy at the LFS that I bought them from said dosing with excel should be plenty fert-wise since I have the eco-complete & flourite. I trimmed the long roots of the crypt & the water sprite before planting. The water sprite I separated into 3 stem bunches before planting. The java fern I separated out to about 3 leaves per rhizome before planting. Everything seems to be doing well except the water sprite has melted a little (slight yellowing & not so vibrant) and 2 leaves of the crypt basically went to mush, which I removed.
    My main question is should I put root tabs in? I've read that crypts especially are root-suckers. Also, any other general advice? Other ferts, etc.? Is the slight melting of the water sprite & crypt pretty standard after an initial planting?
    Another thing to note is I've had the heater cranked up to about 82 while I was cycling because I've read this helps with establishing my BB. Maybe too high for the plants? Thanks in advance for any advice-

    phone pic:


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  2. #2

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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    82 is a bit high, i would turn it down to 78.
    crypts are famous for there ability to melt. they are like ice IMO. any sudden changes will cause them to melt a little bit.
    the eco complete has some nutrients in it now, but in a few months it will be as useful as play sand, unless you add root tabs. i would add one right at the base of the crypts, and maybe the water sprite (im not sure how much they feed threw their roots.) but the eco complete will absorb the nutrients and slowly release it back for the plant.

    i just looked up a quick search, the sprite will feed from the water column mainly and the hygro kompakt will most likely need a root tab with the crypt.

    make sure not to bury the Rhizome on the fern.
    KING OF THE GOLD BARBS RAWR!!!!
    I wonder if i plant one of my tiger barbs would the demon seed grow to a full tree?
    gotta love them bunnies!
    I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!

  3. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Flourish Excel is NOT a fertilizer, it's a carbon supplement (for those without pressurized or DIY CO2). Excel has also been known to melt certain plants, especially when overdosed, so that may be the issue you're seeing. Flourish Comprehensive would be a good fertilizer supplement for that size tank, but that nor root tabs may even be necessary. If you introduce nutrients quicker than the plants can consume them then you'll just end up with a large algae problem. What I always recommend is to monitor the plants for nutrient deficiencies and then determine what fertilizer (if any) is required. If you decide to add root tabs, don't add too many at once for the reasons I stated. The nutrients can still leech into the water column. If you dose the Flourish Comprehensive then the Ecocomplete has the capacity to absorb the nutrients so that it becomes available to the roots.

    Is there any particular reason that you're planning on switching out the 10,000k bulb? Wavelengths towards the blue spectrum help plants grow bushier so it may be better to just leave that in with the 6,700k bulb.

  4. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by funkman262 View Post
    Flourish Excel is NOT a fertilizer, it's a carbon supplement (for those without pressurized or DIY CO2). Excel has also been known to melt certain plants, especially when overdosed, so that may be the issue you're seeing. Flourish Comprehensive would be a good fertilizer supplement for that size tank, but that nor root tabs may even be necessary. If you introduce nutrients quicker than the plants can consume them then you'll just end up with a large algae problem. What I always recommend is to monitor the plants for nutrient deficiencies and then determine what fertilizer (if any) is required. If you decide to add root tabs, don't add too many at once for the reasons I stated. The nutrients can still leech into the water column. If you dose the Flourish Comprehensive then the Ecocomplete has the capacity to absorb the nutrients so that it becomes available to the roots.

    Is there any particular reason that you're planning on switching out the 10,000k bulb? Wavelengths towards the blue spectrum help plants grow bushier so it may be better to just leave that in with the 6,700k bulb.
    @ flourish excel: I'm quite aware that is a carbon supplement and not a fert. I was advised to dose with excel since I don't have any pressurized CO2 or DIY CO2 along with the HO lights. I'm asking if I need to add root tabs along with the excel, or possibly some other ferts ie. comprehensive, trace, micro, macro etc. There are SO many out there it is very hard for a noob to sort out what is needed.

    @ replacing the 10,000k bulb: I was advised that 2 6700k bulbs are way better for FW planted tanks. The 10,000k is more for marine aquariums. Is this not correct?

    Ok, I like your advice of monitoring for signs of deficiencies before adding ferts. So what exactly are signs of deficiency? The melting that I'm witnessing right now?
    Last edited by fallenangelf; 03-30-2013 at 02:15 AM.

  5. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by genocidex View Post
    make sure not to bury the Rhizome on the fern.
    I read not to bury the rhizome, so they are basically barely planted in the sub at all. The roots do not extend way past the rhizome allowing me to bury them while leaving the rhizome above sub level. Will they develop deeper roots anchoring them into the substrate?

  6. #6

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    Merry Christmas! - Lab_Rat thank you for the birthday wishes - mommy1 Happy One Year AC Anniversary! - Rue For being understanding, thank you - Cliff (closest I could find to a catfish) Thanks for the nomination! - sheamurai 
    Thank you for the MOTM nomination - mommy1 I think you deserve a random gift. Yes, I think you do. - PhillipOrigami For being a fellow MA native! - Lolita Happy Birthday to you. - jeffs99dime Merry Christmas - Cliff 
    It's a Christmas Bunny, Merry Christmas. - gadget228 I've not seen anyone with an umbrella here. You seem to have an odd collection of gifts...so here's my contribution. :-) - ~firefly~ "genocidex;1139790]stupid question... but would i be able to use lawn clovers in a tank?  lol"  REALLY - Strider199 crayfish! - Brhino thanks for sharing - sheamurai 
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    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    actually the bluer spectrum is less useful than the red spectrum with most plants. if you look at the spectrum plants need for photosynthesis you will see a larger spike in the red area than the blue one. also the 10000k will cause an algae problem unless the nutrients are in perfect order.
    PlantLightResponse-1.jpg

    source: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=184368
    KING OF THE GOLD BARBS RAWR!!!!
    I wonder if i plant one of my tiger barbs would the demon seed grow to a full tree?
    gotta love them bunnies!
    I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!

  7. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by fallenangelf View Post
    The guy at the LFS that I bought them from said dosing with excel should be plenty fert-wise since I have the eco-complete & flourite.
    Quote Originally Posted by fallenangelf View Post
    @ flourish excel: I'm quite aware that is a carbon supplement and not a fert.
    Sorry, but according to your original post it really didn't seem like that was clear to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by genocidex View Post
    actually the bluer spectrum is less useful than the red spectrum with most plants. if you look at the spectrum plants need for photosynthesis you will see a larger spike in the red area than the blue one. also the 10000k will cause an algae problem unless the nutrients are in perfect order.
    Strange, every PUR graph I've seen in my MANY hours of research in this over the past several years (having already built a 72W LED fixture and interested in building another), including many scholarly journals, has looked much more like this:

    par-absortion-graph.jpg
    http://www.hydroponic-growing-system...row-light.html

    I have two T5HO fixtures, each with a 6,700K and a 12,000K bulb, and I have never had issues with algae, and if you see from my avatar (and journal when I get it activated again because it was hidden due to photo contest), you'll see that I have incredible growth.

  8. #8

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    Merry Christmas! - Lab_Rat thank you for the birthday wishes - mommy1 Happy One Year AC Anniversary! - Rue For being understanding, thank you - Cliff (closest I could find to a catfish) Thanks for the nomination! - sheamurai 
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    It's a Christmas Bunny, Merry Christmas. - gadget228 I've not seen anyone with an umbrella here. You seem to have an odd collection of gifts...so here's my contribution. :-) - ~firefly~ "genocidex;1139790]stupid question... but would i be able to use lawn clovers in a tank?  lol"  REALLY - Strider199 crayfish! - Brhino thanks for sharing - sheamurai 
    For filling out my school! :) - Flyby Stardancer silly rabbit... - sheamurai They say one of these a day keeps doctors away.... - Trillianne Day Two... - Trillianne Thanks for the frogbit very much :) - Greentoads41 
    World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - genocidex 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    ok then i stand corrected, i wouldnt doubt you did more research but that was the graph i came across on my research. with my nova extreme i bought it came with a pink growth bulb and a 12kk bulb and i had a massive algae out break till i changed out the 12kk bulb and then also the growth bulb later.
    KING OF THE GOLD BARBS RAWR!!!!
    I wonder if i plant one of my tiger barbs would the demon seed grow to a full tree?
    gotta love them bunnies!
    I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!

  9. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by genocidex View Post
    ok then i stand corrected, i wouldnt doubt you did more research but that was the graph i came across on my research. with my nova extreme i bought it came with a pink growth bulb and a 12kk bulb and i had a massive algae out break till i changed out the 12kk bulb and then also the growth bulb later.
    Well every tank is unique so what works for some may not work for all. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all setup because there are just way too many parameters that can affect the overall health of the tank.

    Again though, my best advice would be to observe the tank before making any changes. Also, don't make multiple changes at once. If you do and the tank improves (or gets worse) you won't know which change caused it. Take things slow and don't expect any observable results in short periods of time.

    EDIT: Interesting note, I also wanted to add that I've been using the same stock bulbs in my fixtures for over 2.5 years. I constantly hear that not changing the bulbs each year will shift the spectrum resulting in slower growth and increased algae, but again, looking at the results in my tank it's obviously not true (for me at least).
    Last edited by funkman262; 03-30-2013 at 03:11 AM.

  10. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Ok, well thanks for the advice, guys. I guess what I'm taking from this is I should turn my heater down (which I have already done since my cycle is complete), one 6700k & one 10,000k should be fine, will probably need to do root tabs under the crypt and the hygro at some point down the road, and slight melting, especially for the crypt, is normal for initial planting. Any other advice is more than welcome.

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