New Shubunkin Goldfish - Questions

**Celeste247** · 03-07-2013, 11:59 PM

Hi,

I got a cute little Shubunkin to add to an established tank on Monday. Yesterday I noticed a few things that I wasn't sure about...

1. He has what seems to be a larger than normal, slightly raised scale on one side. This isn't discoloured in any way, and I'm not sure if it was there when I first bought him. Could it be an injury? Or something else?
2. He has a reddish colour under his gills on one side. It looks like his external colouring is just clear here, and I think the reddish colour is underneath. This was present when I bought him, but only now have I realised that it could be flukes or something. Before I just thought he was very pretty with all his colours!
3. He has a little fin on one side (like Nemo!). This doesn't bother him, and he swims a little differently to normal, but I think he has adapted this to stay balanced. Is this just a minor deformity that I shouldn't be concerned with?

Pet Shop says the water is very good, and he is not behaving abnormally at all.
I have included two pictures below and also video I slowed down, to try and show these issues.
Thanks for your help!

1.jpg 2.jpg

**madagascariensis** · 03-08-2013, 01:00 AM

Other info such as tank size, tankmates, maintenance schedule and age would be very helpful. Exact water parameters too(not just "good"). For that we would recommend getting your own test kit as pet stores are quite disreputable places when it comes to water testing and other information.

**Celeste247** · 03-08-2013, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by madagascariensis

Other info such as tank size, tankmates, maintenance schedule and age would be very helpful. Exact water parameters too(not just "good"). For that we would recommend getting your own test kit as pet stores are quite disreputable places when it comes to water testing and other information.

Sorry, I just assumed that because he was new and the issues didn't necessarily occur in my tank, that it wasn't related to that.
The pH is 7.5, but I don't have a testing kit for anything else at the moment. I plan to get one for ammonia, but that is all I can really afford. I will just have to rely on the pet store's testing for everything else - they are very reliable, they do all the tests in front of you and show you the results, but I didn't note down the specifics when they said it was good.
This Shubunkin is 6-9 months apparently, and shares the tank with a Comet who was also 6-9 months old when I got it (probably closer to 9 since it is bigger than the Shubunkin). The Comet was the first fish I got after I cycled the tank, and was put in 3 and a half weeks before the Shubunkin. They are currently in a 5.5 gallon tank, which I know is small for two goldfish, but I have a good filter and plan to upgrade before they get too much older. I have been doing 30% water changes and gravel siphoning weekly since I put in the first fish.

The only behaviour that stands out at the moment is the larger Comet kind of swimming next to and pushing around the Shubunkin sometimes. This generally only occurs around feeding time, and I assume is a dominance behaviour. The Shubunkin doesn't seem too stressed out by it, and for the rest of the day they are both happy to do their own thing, or swim next to each other peacefully.

Hope this is enough info for you.
Thanks for your help :)

**Lady10Godiva** · 03-08-2013, 03:38 AM

Really neither of those fish belong in a five gallon tank. The comet is a pond fish since it can get to be over a foot long.

If you cant afford testing equipment now it may be a sign you cant afford that bigger tank either.

If you wanted something that could live a happy life in your tank you should loom into getting a betta for it. It would be a good choice for your tank if you put a heater in it.

**Celeste247** · 03-08-2013, 05:30 AM

Could any further responses please address my actual question? I did not post on here for advice about tank size or my finances. Thanks

**Honey Badger 1** · 03-08-2013, 12:34 PM

Well, to address your actual question, your fish is suffering because it is in a tank that is too small and if you can't afford to get them a proper sized tank maybe you should return them.

**madagascariensis** · 03-08-2013, 01:21 PM

1. That looks like a scale to me, could just have been knocked in transport or against a hard object and should fall of eventually.
2. That sounds like water quality issues to me. Water parameters in such a small tank change rapidly so even if the pet store was right about you having fine water earlier, it could be very polluted now.
3. The big fish farms don't really care about genetics, just churning out as much fish as possible. Due to that, fish with minor deformities are common.

Like others before me, I would encourage the goldfish to be returned. Regardless of whether the problems you have encountered stem from your tank or the pet store, a 5 gallon tank is not a suitable long term environment for a social, active fish that grows to a foot in length.

**Tiari** · 03-08-2013, 01:24 PM

I do understand your frustration. Please be aware, that though some of the responses seem aggressive, they are indeed answering your question. The tank size and your finances to adequately house and maintain the fish, will in fact, cause an inability to raise the fish you have chosen. I know this from experience.

What your Shubbie is starting to show, is poisoning. This is from toxic conditions in the tank, that the pet store just can not and will not test for. If I am correct, and I would bet my bottom dollar I am, they are using inadequate test strips, which by their own nature in multi-test strips, do NOT test for ammonia. Also, no test can actually tell you what other problems are arising in the water, such as decreased oxygen levels.

From my own experience with Goldfish, I did start indeed like you. From a ten gallon, to a 30 gallon....... and then a shovel in my hand digging out a pond for them of monsterous proportions. Unless you, and your budget are up for that, which it isn't for most people, even I could barely handle it, you might consider returning them for something appropriate to what you can afford.

There is this prevailing "myth" that goldfish can live in a bowl and very small areas, but that is pure fantasy. They grow extremely large, they do -not- just grow to the size of whatever they are put in, and suffer greatly in confined spaces. Of all kept fish, they produce the most waste into the water, and use up much more oxygen, making their environment they are kept in very particular. These fish can grow to HUGE sizes. as a reference from the bend of your elbow to the tips of your fingers.

This may all sound harsh, but the thread running through this, is none of us want the fish to suffer, nor YOU. These fish will not live long n so small a container, and very little you can do at the time in such conditions will ward that off.

**imma24** · 03-08-2013, 01:25 PM

[QUOTE=Celeste247;1137884]
2. He has a reddish colour under his gills on one side. It looks like his external colouring is just clear here, and I think the reddish colour is underneath. This was present when I bought him, but only now have I realised that it could be flukes or something. Before I just thought he was very pretty with all his colours!

It could also be ammonia poisoning - as suggested above, it would be in the fish's best interest to be in a larger tank - in a small tank, water parameters can be very poor & there will be ammonia build up, even if you are changing the water frequently (with that many goldfish in there, I would change half the water daily to help with ammonia build up which is inevitable - goldfish are messy fish)

3. He has a little fin on one side (like Nemo!). This doesn't bother him, and he swims a little differently to normal, but I think he has adapted this to stay balanced. Is this just a minor deformity that I shouldn't be concerned with?

meaning he doesn't have fins on both sides?Yes, sound like the fish has adapted

Pet Shop says the water is very good, and he is not behaving abnormally at all.

Unfortunately, many pet shops will say your water is fine when it really isn't. My local Petsmarts will say the ammonia is "fine" at 1.0ppm when it should be at 0. I'm recommending you learn what what "good" parameters should be (0ppm - parts per million ammonia, 0ppm nitrites & 20ppm or less nitrates) so you can ask for actual readings at your pet store.

Please see my responses above

**talldutchie** · 03-08-2013, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Celeste247

Could any further responses please address my actual question? I did not post on here for advice about tank size or my finances. Thanks

But your peculiar notion that a poor quality specimen of a fish that should grow to 8 inches in the next few months and more than a foot by fall 2014 is going to cause serious health issues for this fish.