Cycling Issues - Ammonia Stuck

[seabiscuit68]

Yes it would.

I decided to do the water changes. I did a 30% last night and the nitrite and nitrate readings were still off the charts. I let it stabilize for the night and added my normal 1-2 ppm of ammonia. I will check in a few hours to ensure I didn't screw up the ammonia eating bacteria with the water change (doubtful, but you never know) - if the ammonia is back to 0, then I will do another large water change (50 or 75%) and dose the ammonia and see where my levels are...hopefully at least in the readable range so I can see what is going on.

[funkman262]

Be sure to check the ammonia AND nitrIte. If BOTH have gone back down to zero, then you just need to do large enough a water change to get the nitrate back down to a safe level.

[seabiscuit68]

Be sure to check the ammonia AND nitrIte. If BOTH have gone back down to zero, then you just need to do large enough a water change to get the nitrate back down to a safe level.

My nitrites are still off the charts after the water change...they won't be going to zero today. Doing another big water change tonight...what a waste of water...

I think fish in cycling is probably better. Kill a few fish but worth it for the amount of water you waste...think of the Africans :-)

[funkman262]

My nitrites are still off the charts after the water change...they won't be going to zero today. Doing another big water change tonight...what a waste of water...

Oh, I was assuming both ammonia and nitrite were back down to zero after the water change. I would suggest doing a 100% water change, dosing 2ppm ammonia and checking how long it takes for ammonia and nitrite to be completely converted to nitrate.

[Paintcraze]

How is it going?

[seabiscuit68]

How is it going?

I agree with the poster above you, the I should have done a 100% water change and then dosed with Ammonia to see if they go to nitrates in a timely manner, but sadly, I read that after I did a 75% water change. This brought the levels down to a readable level (about 3 ppm of nitrite and 40 ppm of nitrate). I then dosed with ammonia and the next day checked. The nitrite was back off the chart (> 6 ppm) and the nitrate was 60 ppm. Don't ask how that is possible when I add only 1-2 ppm of ammonia. I dosed with ammonia again (gotta keep the bacteria alive and happy) and the next day, the level of nitrite dropped back down to about 4-5 ppm. And the nitrate is closer to 80 ppm. So I dosed with ammonia again...

That is where I am. Here is the plan going forward -
There is obviously nitrite ---> nitrate bacteria present and it appears to be in numbers that can sustain my 30 gallon tank. So I will keep doing as I am until Wednesday night. On Wednesday night, I will do a 100% water change, dose with ammonia, and prove that I have sufficient bacteria. That will also get my nitrate down to a low level (and my nitrite). I will then dose on Thursday night. Then Friday, I will go buy fish. Two doses of ammonia shouldn't produce too much nitrate and my nitrite and ammonia should be 0 ppm by Friday night.

[Honey Badger 1]

A water change will bring down the current levels of nitrite and nitrate, but will do little to nothing to the bacteria since little to none live in the water column. You will see them skyrocket again after you re-dose.

I agree with the poster above you, the I should have done a 100% water change and then dosed with Ammonia to see if they go to nitrates in a timely manner, but sadly, I read that after I did a 75% water change. This brought the levels down to a readable level (about 3 ppm of nitrite and 40 ppm of nitrate). I then dosed with ammonia and the next day checked. The nitrite was back off the chart (> 6 ppm) and the nitrate was 60 ppm. Don't ask how that is possible when I add only 1-2 ppm of ammonia. I dosed with ammonia again (gotta keep the bacteria alive and happy) and the next day, the level of nitrite dropped back down to about 4-5 ppm. And the nitrate is closer to 80 ppm.

It is possible because you removed nitrite and nitrate when you did the water change, but you didn't remove any of the bacteria that are doing the converting because they are in the filter not the water column. You have the same amount of bacteria doing the converting so they are converting at the same rate as before the water change. As I said before, once the nitrite starts to drop (without water changes) they usually drop fairly quickly and I recommend one more time to have patience and wait until the tank reads 0ppm for ammonia and nitrites and some nitrates before you add any fish.

[funkman262]

This brought the levels down to a readable level (about 3 ppm of nitrite and 40 ppm of nitrate). I then dosed with ammonia and the next day checked. The nitrite was back off the chart (> 6 ppm) and the nitrate was 60 ppm. Don't ask how that is possible when I add only 1-2 ppm of ammonia.

It is possible because you removed nitrite and nitrate when you did the water change, but you didn't remove any of the bacteria that are doing the converting because they are in the filter not the water column.

I could be wrong, but I think seabiscuit was referring to the fact that the nitrite and nitrate increased so much when only 1-2ppm of ammonia was added. If that's the case, it's because ammonia has a molecular weight of 17 grams/mol, while nitrite and nitrate is 46 and 62 g/mol, respectively. What that means is that for every mg/L of ammonia you add, 2.7 mg/L nitrite will be produced, which would then be converted to 3.7 mg/L nitrate (before considering the amount of nitrogen that is consumed for growth, which I believe is very little for these bacteria). Hope that clears things up if that actually was what confused you.

[seabiscuit68]

I could be wrong, but I think seabiscuit was referring to the fact that the nitrite and nitrate increased so much when only 1-2ppm of ammonia was added. If that's the case, it's because ammonia has a molecular weight of 17 grams/mol, while nitrite and nitrate is 46 and 62 g/mol, respectively. What that means is that for every mg/L of ammonia you add, 2.7 mg/L nitrite will be produced, which would then be converted to 3.7 mg/L nitrate (before considering the amount of nitrogen that is consumed for growth, which I believe is very little for these bacteria). Hope that clears things up if that actually was what confused you.

Thanks for the info - you were correct on what I was referring to. I don't think the other poster and I have compatible writing / reading styles, as I am often misinterpreted by her.

Either way, you answered my question and saved me looking it up (I figured it would involve some chemistry), which I appreciate.

[Honey Badger 1]

Oh I understood what you were referring to, but since you are having such issues with the simplest of cycling concepts I didn't think you would be able to grasp the chemistry behind those concepts.