Cycling Issues - Ammonia Stuck

[funkman262]

lol seabiscuit, I like your style. If you feel your bacterial colonies are sufficient for the bioload that you'll be putting into the tank, then feel free to do a large water change and add the fish. One of three things may happen:

1. There isn't enough bacteria and you end up with ammonia and nitrite spikes.
2. There's too much bacteria for the bioload provided. Bacteria will die off until an equilibrium arises. This can also create ammonia spikes as the bacteria die but are subsequently consumed by the remaining bacteria.
3. Nothing noticeable if the amount of bacteria is correct for the bioload.

Keep in mind that once a sizeable amount of bacteria is present, small ammonia spikes are rapidly taken care of because bacterial growth is exponential. Good luck.

[Honey Badger 1]

Again, I don't understand the arrogance on this forum. The very fact that I am here, asking for help and attempting to cycle my tank already puts me in the minority, as most people would buy a tank, throw fish in and watch as they die - Talk about arrogance, take a look in the mirror. You come here asking advice due to your own self-proclaimed ignorance and then cry because we tell you are wrong and need to wait.

It seems like you all don't understand what a "cycle" is...you just kinda follow a pre-determined path and can't think for yourselves.

A cycle is this:
1) create an ammonia rich environment that will mimic the conditions of a fully stocked tank Wrong, you are creating a bacteria rich environment that converts ammonia quickly, in essence an ammonia free environment.
2) Allow bacteria that eat the ammonia to grow in numbers sufficient to remove the quantities of ammonia representative of a fully stocked tank Good job, at least you got this far in your understanding.
3) This in turn creates a nitrite rich environment that will mimic the conditions of a fully stocked tank Again, a bacteria rich environment that creates a nitrite free environment.
4) This allows bacteria that eat nitrite to grow in numbers sufficient to remove the quantities of nitrite representative of a fully stocked tank Got another one, good for you.
5) once you have sufficient bacteria of both types, your cycle is complete Exactly, and your tank has not completed the cycle yet. It will not be complete until you get readings of 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, and some nitrate.

What you are saying is that I won't have "sufficient bacteria to remove quantities of nitrite representative of a fully stocked tank" until I have enough bacteria to eat > 6ppm of nitrite + a daily dose of nitrite equal to the waste product of 1-2 ppm of ammonia being converted.

If you can tell me that a normal tank needs enough bacteria to convert that much nitrite during normal use, then I will continue the cycle. If not, then I will change the water until a "normal" amount of nitrite (representative of what a fully stocked tank might experience) is present, and continue my cycle until that amount of nitrite is gone in 24 hours. I'm pretty sure I told you already it isn't that you need the massive amount of bacteria that you are creating, but you must complete the cycle before you add fish.

I put my socks on before I put my shoes on because it has proven to be the best method so countless times. Same applies with cycling, we talk about the cycling sticky so often and ask people to not deviate because it has been proven successful countless times. I stand by my other post, if you can't be patient enough to get through cycling, maybe you should find another hobby, I hear bungy jumping is fun, and I will add to that statement and say if so many other forums talk about cycling and they tell you what you want to hear then why not go there. Now I feel bad for ignoring your earlier statement about keeping a betta in an unfiltered and unheated bowl alone. If you can't keep fish properly and in an environment that they thrive, why keep them?

[fishmommie]

Your arrogance is appalling. Weren't you the one who started this thread by condemning me for my harsh language? And now you come on here with your holier than thou attitude?

First - this isn't the only site on the internet that discusses cycling. In fact, I didn't even discover this site until the date of my first post. To insinuate that I didn't follow your precious sticky guide to the letter shows you as an arrogant hypocrite that believes that this is the only site that gives advice on cycling.

Look around on the internet, every place besides here has suggested 3-5 ppm of ammonia for cycling. That is what I used. Contrary to your ignorant statement, I did not "redose ammonia before it had dropped to zero" and "did not half my dose of ammonia" - My ammonia dropped from 3 - 5 ppm to zero in about 3 days. I have since been dosing at 1-2 ppm per day as it goes to zero every day. Reading comprehension is tough, I know, but at least try and read.

Now you even refuse to read my previous posts. I have given a sound, logical, reasonable argument for a path to take, and you are telling me I am not listening to you. You believe so fully in your "sticky guide" that you cannot think for yourself and answer a question when the situation deviates from your "sticky guide."

Others here are actually giving advice - you come on to berate.

Okay. I reread my post and I don't see anywhere that I berated. I merely stated what had been previously covered. And clearly, I advised you to do what ever you wanted to do, as it's your tank. Sorry you felt attacked. You came for advice. We have given our best. If you don't want to take it, that's your call. Just as your participation on this forum is your call.
Again - good luck. No harassment or arrogance intended.

[Paintcraze]

Is it possible that the nitrites and nitrates are so high in this tank that they are inhibiting the completion of the cycle? If so, wouldn't a large water change (or two) be helpful?

[seabiscuit68]

Now I feel bad for ignoring your earlier statement about keeping a betta in an unfiltered and unheated bowl alone. If you can't keep fish properly and in an environment that they thrive, why keep them?

They are tasty

[seabiscuit68]

Okay. I reread my post and I don't see anywhere that I berated. I merely stated what had been previously covered. And clearly, I advised you to do what ever you wanted to do, as it's your tank. Sorry you felt attacked. You came for advice. We have given our best. If you don't want to take it, that's your call. Just as your participation on this forum is your call.
Again - good luck. No harassment or arrogance intended.

I appreciate that.

[seabiscuit68]

Is it possible that the nitrites and nitrates are so high in this tank that they are inhibiting the completion of the cycle? If so, wouldn't a large water change (or two) be helpful?

That is what I am trying to ask!!!

[pckroeger]

Your idea seems to make sense to me. I know experience counts for everything in this hobby, and I only have a small amount of that, but to me it makes sense to bring ammonia and nitrite down to similar levels so you finish your cycle with colonies of ammonia oxidizing and nitrite oxidizing bacteria of the same strength, which to me sounds like the ideal conditions for consuming fish bio load waste products. I don't see anything wrong with doing this, if you observe ammonia and nitrite dropping from 1-2ppm to 0 in 24 hours for several days, I believe your tank is cycled and fish ready. If a water change brings those conditions faster then I see no problem with it. Again, these are just my thoughts, I have not experienced or observed this in the flesh, with that in mind, make an executive decision based on everything in this thread. I believe all posters on this thread have posted correct advice for cycling and you will get your cycle with or without a water change to reduce nitrites, but I myself believe you may get cycled quicker if you do bring the nitrite down to lower levels. I think as long as ammonia and nitrite are dropping from 1-2ppm in 24 hours for several days in a row, and your nitrates are low, your fish will be happy, regardless of how you got there. Just my thoughts. Good luck with your cycle!

[Lady Hobbs]

I have not read all the posts because my head is swimming now but

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> 6 ppm nitrite - this has been off the charts for 3-4 days now
> 100 ppm nitrate - this has been climbing for 3-4 days - it started at 0 ppm 4 days ago and is now > 100 ppm
______________

is a clear indication of way too much overdosing. Not sure how you even come to 6 ppm's of nitrites when the test only goes to 5 but if it is topping out at 5, it could be much higher.

No shrimp or anything else will live in a tank when you are adding ammonia to it.

[Lady Hobbs]

Is it possible that the nitrites and nitrates are so high in this tank that they are inhibiting the completion of the cycle? If so, wouldn't a large water change (or two) be helpful?

Yes it would.